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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Canon Policy and the Small Screen Forums

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Jedi Merkurian , Feb 25, 2003.

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  1. YodaJeff

    YodaJeff Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2001
    I agree. I don't necessarily like a lot of what happens in the various books, so I just avoid the Lit forum. There's no point in going there just to cause trouble, especially since I have only read a couple of the novels.
     
  2. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    Right, which is why the whole issue of "canon" with respect to small screen Star Wars is irrelevent.

    Discuss the subject of small screen Star Wars. Those causing problems for people trying to discuss small screen Star Wars should be dealt with.
     
  3. Kadue

    Kadue Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2000
    The answer to this lies in an application of a little logic to how the other forum rules are.

    Basically, the events of the material that the forum is based around are considered to have happened for the purposes of discussion in that forum.

    Ergo, in the Small Screen SW forum, the movies and the TV shows/telemovies are all considered to have occurred.
     
  4. Gandalf the Grey

    Gandalf the Grey Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 14, 2000
    The question of whether it?s considered canon or not will have to be decided by the moderators of the forum. I don?t think that we should try to make someone who thinks that the EU is just one (mostly wrong) interpretation of the story outside the movies moderate as if they believed that the EU is exactly what happened.

    I don?t think that a firm middle ground can be found. You either accept the EU as canon or you don?t. Certainly you can have a middle ground, but you?ll be under fire from both sides. Given the placement of the forum (in the Movies section) my suggestion is that it should follow 3SA canon rules. Put a couple EU enclaves in for various purposes, and allow a few threads in Literature to discuss some of the aspects of the show.

    In general, prohibit people from trying to make canon a big issue in the forum. If in the thread devoted to episode 18, someone says ?Hey, that character was introduced in the comic book Republic #49? and someone else says ?That still doesn?t mean that she?s canon,? considering warning the person who replied that trying to start a canon debate isn?t the reason for the thread. I don?t mean as in a ?Don?t do this or you?re banned? kind of warning, but a gentler ?stay on target? kind of warning. And neither should the fact that a character from Republic #49 appeared in the show dominate the discussion. The same goes in the inverse. Don?t let people try to cause problems with canon. Allow a token canon discussion or two, but in general leave the issue alone.
     
  5. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Gandolf, allow me to completely disagree with you... ;)

    Given the placement of the forum (in the Movies section) my suggestion is that it should follow 3SA canon rules.

    So -- the LFL Projects are in the Movies Forum. Does that mean Indiana Jones is canon to Star Wars because it occurred in a movie?

    No, so why apply the same Movie limitations to a TV series that is, BY DEFINTION, Expanded Universe. I think if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck -- people should have the right to ask "What's a duck?"
     
  6. Gandalf the Grey

    Gandalf the Grey Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 14, 2000
    [shrugs]

    If it was in the EU category, I?d agree with you. If it?s in the EU category, you should expect that the rest of the EU is supported (unless you?re in the Games forum, but that?s a whole other kettle of fish [face_mischief]). This forum is the in the Movie category, and I get the impression that it?s seriously being pushed by Josh as not really being EU, and so something that any Jade-hating (or Brie-hating) Star Wars fan can get into despite their dislikes.

    Making it an EU forum defeats the purpose that I think that Josh has in mind for it. I?m not saying that I agree with what I perceive Josh?s intentions to be, but that I think that this is the way that he generallys wants it to be.
     
  7. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    So, and no offense intended, if Josh thinks it's not-EU but LFL thinks it IS EU -- then LFL doesn't win?

    Isn't that the EXACT opposite of the EU policy we adhere to here?
     
  8. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    I agree with Gandolf to a large degree.

    The one thing to keep in mind - and it's actually happening - is that this forum will get widespread useage by EU fans and non-EU fans alike. So, any forum-specific guidelines need to be able to be workable for the primary forum users.

    The reason why the Lit. forum has the policy that all non-Infinities books are canon, is because that's also the exact same official policy Lucas has as well. A new fan who follows the "trade magazines" (Gamer, Insider, the official site, etc.) knows such things and has an inherent expectation that the official policy will be true. They come to the Lit. forum, and "lo and behold," it is.

    I think to some degree, it's in our best interests to mimic the official company line with respect to things like small screen Star Wars as well.

    And officially, while both are Expanded Universe, small screen Star Wars isn't under the same umbrella that Star Wars books are.
     
  9. Gandalf the Grey

    Gandalf the Grey Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 14, 2000
    So, and no offense intended, if Josh thinks it's not-EU but LFL thinks it IS EU -- then LFL doesn't win?

    The site belongs to Josh. If he decides he doesn't like the way that LFL is currently doing things, then he doesn't have to mirror them. As I understand things, he?s trying to attract people who hate the existing EU as well as those that like it, and by cutting down on the connection to the greater EU he makes the forum more popular to those people. Once again, I'm not saying that I agree with his decision (remember, I wanted everything in the Literature forum!), but I support his right to make that decision. Kind of like I disagreed with him about the homosexuality question, but I supported his right to make that decision.




    EDIT: That's what, 8 posts in a row by Literature moderators? :p
     
  10. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Bit of a difference there, Gandolf -- one decision was in-line with LFL-policy, the other isn't... :)

    I never said I wouldn't go along with it if it was his decision -- but nothing has been said as of yet sothe debate goes onwards... ;)
     
  11. Gandalf the Grey

    Gandalf the Grey Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 14, 2000
    I don't think that Josh really cares about LFL policy much. ;)
     
  12. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    The question isn't whether small screen Star Wars is EU or not. That's a fact which has already been established. It is EU.

    However, small screen Star Wars in addition to being EU is also film.

    Therefore, the status of being EU is not necessarily contradicted by its placement under the "Star Wars Films" umbrella. It is a Star Wars film. This much is also a fact which has already been established.

    None of these, however, are relevent to the issue at hand - canon. ;)
     
  13. Darth McClain

    Darth McClain Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2000
    Sorry to be off task again, but wouldn't it make more sence for it to be under the "Beyond the Films: Expanded Universe" heading?



    For the topic at hand, I think that for 3SA and the other movie forums it isn't a big deal to have "According to the last SWTCW epsisode, x happens and y gets hurt, etc" isn't a big deal. For the Small Screen Forum, I don't think it's necessary because it is a forum made for small screen films, and not the PT/CT.
     
  14. Ternian

    Ternian Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    May 16, 2000
    If it is from LFL and doesn't contradict the movies, then I consider it canon.

     
  15. Darth-Stryphe

    Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2001
    The way that those flame wars are managed and kept under control is because there's a set policy regarding "canon" in the various Forums.

    Well, despite policies, I still see cannon debates pop-up here and there. The best way to handle this is just to enforce the TOS. Let people have their debates, but just don't let them cross the flame/troll line. Seems simple enough to me.
     
  16. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    IMO, the best route would be to consider anything that falls under the topic of the forum to be considered canon for the purposes of discussion on that board- at the same time, acknowledge it is a part of the EU however.

    Otherwise, it would seem a tad silly to have a forum where the topic of that forum could not be discussed in an "absolute" manner.

    So, the SSSW forum should treat the cartoons, telefilms and (though debatable, I suppose) Holiday Special as canon for the purposes of discussion. The rest of the EU would be regarded as it is in the other film forums.

    Thats my 2 cents.
     
  17. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    "But I think Merk's point was more to Movie people going into the TV Forum and saying the things there never happened and they're not canon -- that should also not be allowed."

    Exaaaaactly!
     
  18. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Essentially, it's eu. However, if there is something that seems to be relevent to episode 3, then it should be up to the mods to decide how to handle it.

    Anakin's appearence for instance, right now could be considered canon. When we last saw him, that was how he looked in AOTC. And that could be how he appears in episode 3. But it would also be considered eu, since it's not seen in the films.
     
  19. Gandalf the Grey

    Gandalf the Grey Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 14, 2000
    So, the SSSW forum should treat the cartoons, telefilms and (though debatable, I suppose) Holiday Special as canon for the purposes of discussion. The rest of the EU would be regarded as it is in the other film forums.

    Exactly.
     
  20. Errant_Venture

    Errant_Venture Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Don't mind me, but one question in regards to this post.

    So, the SSSW forum should treat the cartoons, telefilms and (though debatable, I suppose) Holiday Special as canon for the purposes of discussion. The rest of the EU would be regarded as it is in the other film forums.

    What about R2-D2: Beneath the Dome? [face_devil]

    I agree with the above statement by the way. ;)
     
  21. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    >> What about R2-D2: Beneath the Dome?<<

    Why, it'll be comfortable over with the Kenner commercials... ;;D
     
  22. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2001
    Honestly, I don't understand the importance of what's canon or EU. I really don't. We're the only one's who seem to be concerned about it. And what if one day Lucas says it all is canon or only the movies are canon, or what if R2-D2 Beneath the Dome is the only thing that is canon? So what? Who cares? Just watch, read, listen to, and discuss what you like. Getting into discussion regarding EU and canon inevitably leads to solving and agreeing to nothing and ends up hurting people's feelings.
     
  23. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Which is why it's best to establish the rules and definitions going into this new forum, so that the debates by people who do care about the issue that end in that result you describe can be avoided.
     
  24. Padme Bra

    Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 1999
    Well there's one dedicated thread about whether or not the Clone Wars show is canon. I'd like to keep all discussion on that subject in that thread alone so that the rest of the forum can just be about the show itself. Well, that and the Droids/Ewok/Christmas Special, all of which are getting surprisingly decent traffic.
     
  25. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    "Surprisingly"

    Hey, I always tried to tell you there's people that talk about this stuff.

    Droids/Ewoks and the Holiday Special all get a decent amount of discussion with some regularity in Lit.
     
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