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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph "On your left." - Captain America (Brave New World)

Discussion in 'Community' started by gonzoforce, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Yet it was fine when that exact scenario happened in TWS? o_O
     
  2. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Mar 19, 1999
    CA2 hits $700 million worldwide this weekend, coming close to doubling the box office of the first one - an amazing testament to what Marvel has been able to build in just a few years.
     
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  3. Darth_Invidious

    Darth_Invidious Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 21, 1999
    So how did it perform overall?
     
  4. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral JCC Baseball Draft/SWC Draft Commish star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Right. Because that's exactly what happened. They introduced a brand new character who lives inside archaic computer equipment. And they didn't explain his connection or how he got there.

    Or, they took an existing character from the first Captain America film, and have a brief explanation of what happened to change him. I think it's reasonable to expect that 99% if the folks watching TWS also watched TFA. Marvel doesn't want to assume that when it comes to AoU. The assumption is if you watched Avengers, you can watch AoU.

    How much explanation would someone who had only seen Avengers need on Zola? And is Marvel going to make 60% of the audience, who had seen the previous ten movies, sit through it all for the minority who have seen 1-5 movies? Doubtful.

    You will see the effects of IM3, TDW, and TWS in AoU. But you won't see specifics from those films to an extent that it's confusing to casual fans.
     
  5. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Oct 16, 2008
    People were talking about Zola appearing in AOU. That's not a brand new character. And I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume those who saw TWS definitely saw TFA as well. That's not how the movie-going public works all the time. Fact is, while every MCU film is interconnected, they also stand on their own as single films, or at least that's the intent.

    And not to pick on you in particular, but I kinda hate the "they shouldn't/can't introduce something weird without a lot of setup and/or exposition". If that were the case, no film would ever dare to do something unique and different out of the fear that "people won't get it". To use the go-to example nowadays- an alien warrior princess doesn't make sense but a walking, talking, gun-toting raccoon does?

    The masses are smarter than we give them credit for. Fact is, generally speaking, people don't usually care about the "why" or "what". They just want to be entertained. The amount of casual filmgoers probably vastly outnumbers the amount of people actually into film in terms of who's actually seeing these movies, especially when it comes to big action blockbusters.
     
  6. EmpireForever

    EmpireForever Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 2004
    These aren't films, these are a franchise; it's McDonalds, to quote Jim Gaffigan. They're trying to put as many people in the seats as possible. There's not a whole lot to "get" with a talking raccoon. He's an alien. And it's a bad example anyway, since we don't know how much setup he's getting. Besides that, GotG is meant to be weird and out there.

    The problem is not that they can't introduce something weird, it's that they want to make these movies accessible to the general audience--people who haven't seen these other movies. And it's going to be distracting for someone who maybe hasn't seen FA or WS, because they're going to be wondering who this Zola is. And, if these movies were made specifically for fans of the movies, that would be fine, because they already know, but these movies aren't made for fans of these movies, they're made for everyone who happens to be deciding on what movie to watch that weekend. And if they start doing things like making them inaccessible by making them basically a mini-series, it's going to start turning people away when it comes time to decide what to watch when the newest Avengers is playing, because last time the GP watched an Avengers movie, they didn't follow anything that was going on.
     
  7. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Oct 16, 2008
    I agree with your overall points, but I guess I disagree on just what makes a film inaccessible. Weird sci-fi stuff like a guy existing as a computer doesn't strike me as inaccessible; overarching plots that only make sense if you've seen most if not all parts of a movie franchise do. Like, if someone only watches Avengers and AOU, SHIELD or Nick Fury not being around might raise more questions than a sentient quasi-Nazi computer. Not that those are inaccessible plot points, but they can be, more so than Zola.
     
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  8. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral JCC Baseball Draft/SWC Draft Commish star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

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    Jul 13, 2005
    Thanks for saying it better than I could. Basically, if a buddy of mine it's watching AoU with me and asks me "who the hell is Zola?", my answer shouldn't be "you'll understand if you watch The Winter Soldier."

    That being said, and my 99% was exaggeration, it's reasonable to expect the audience to accept characters from the first Captain America in the second Captain America. Less so, characters from The Dark World.
     
  9. Penguinator

    Penguinator Former Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    May 23, 2005

    Yeah, well, Civil War was pretty unlikeable. Come at me, Mark Millar.
     
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  10. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    They were able to introduce Zola in TWS for audience members who hadn't seen TFA- why couldn't they do it again in Avengers if he had a part to play in things?

    Zola's exposition in TWS wasn't very long- and 3/4ths of it was about HYDRA as opposed to himself.
     
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  11. TrandoJedi

    TrandoJedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 4, 2011
    Exactly, to use my mother as example she didn't know who he was as she didn't see TFA. But the movie(TWS) quickly explained who he was and what he was doing without requiring knowledge of TFA, it just made it more exciting for the fans.
     
  12. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Plus, other elements from other MCU were utilized in the Avengers with little to no explanation: Selvig, for example. Heck, the McGuffin for this movie was the McGuffin from TFA with scant exposition.
     
  13. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001

    Some people though, can be confused by something if they come in late like with "The Avengers" and not understand certain things that aren't very clearly explained. People can come in fresh, but that doesn't mean that they will get everything. That's kinda why the trailers for "Thor" established the connection to "Iron Man" and "The Incredible Hulk" and part of the reason for the title "Captain America: The First Avenger". Even GOTG's advertising is marketing it as from the studio that made these previous films.

    Indeed. My mom was the same way. She had only seen "The Incredible Hulk" when it was on Cinemax back in 09 and she understood the basics from the old television series and watching the 80's cartoon with me. But when she saw "The Avengers" a few months ago on Epix, she thought Iron Man was the big hero of MCU like Superman in the DCU. She didn't get the connection between Cap and the Hulk. Thor to the Tesseract. That Phil Coulson was the head of S.H.I.E.L.D. since she saw previews for AOS and not Nick Fury.

    That doesn't make her stupid, just not well informed.

    Indeed.
     
  14. Skywalker8921

    Skywalker8921 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Oh, bummer. I was hoping that Dad, Mom, and I could go see it this weekend at our local Carmike, but it's not on the Fandango listings for tomorrow through Monday.

    Guess we waited too long - and I told them I wanted to see it in theaters.

    *sigh*
     
  15. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Isn't there another theater that's within driving distance that has it?
     
  16. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    Just pirate the damn thing.
     
  17. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Yeah and risk getting a computer virus for doing so? Much less risk breaking the law and getting caught.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Juliet316

    Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Apr 27, 2005
    There's always this thing called buying a newspaper or going to your theater's website and checking to see if it's still playing and what times it's playing.

    Just saying.
     
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  19. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

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    Feb 27, 2013
    Newspaper?
     
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  20. Juliet316

    Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Apr 27, 2005
    Believe it or not, there are some still in print.
     
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  21. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 13, 2008
    So I just saw this tonight. It was really good! And nobody cares about my assessment because they already saw it.
     
  22. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 29, 2005
  23. Skywalker8921

    Skywalker8921 Jedi Knight star 4

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    Jun 9, 2011
    Nope - checked the theater's website and it's not listed there either.
     
  24. EmpireForever

    EmpireForever Force Ghost star 8

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    Mar 15, 2004
    in the arms of the angels...
     
  25. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral JCC Baseball Draft/SWC Draft Commish star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

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    Jul 13, 2005
    Spot on review