Amph Captain America: The Winter Soldier

Discussion in 'Community' started by gonzoforce, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9

    But even that's covered -- she is trying to atone for the sins of her past. No matter what she said to Loki, she also said it to Hawkeye...

    We don't know the details therein, which is where a solo movie comes in, but we do know why she does what she does...
  2. KissMeImARebel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2003
    star 4
    I don't think Widow has had great characterization but I don't think it's been terrible either. And honestly I don't see how that should exclude her from having her own movie. Maybe, you know, she'll get great development and characterization IN HER OWN MOVIE. Why does she have to prove herself in supporting roles and ensembles? Thor, Cap and Hulk all got standalones without appearing anywhere else first.
  3. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 6
  4. Six Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2014
    star 4
    All they really need is a good director with a good vision for the film to work. Thats the bottom line. If they put as much effort into it as their other films, it will be fine. And I know Black Widow would be there first female led film, but I think they should avoid "girl power!" themes. Just treat her like any other character getting their own film and make it good. We already know shes a chick and shes badass, they don't need to spell it out for us.
  5. KissMeImARebel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2003
    star 4
    As are some of your criticisms of her character. ;) I do think she needs to be fleshed out more, and I haven't been in love with ScarJo's performance. She has good screen presence and she's serviceable, but I swear, she usually has two modes: confusion and fear. So I certainly don't want Marvel to just assume they can stick with the status quo: they SHOULD step up their game with her developing her character. As for ScarJo, I think she can pull it off, but I'd like to see better from her too.
    Penguinator likes this.
  6. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 6
    I think you just hit the nail on the head, honestly. It's not that any of it is bad, it's just that it could all be really good.
  7. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    QMAOFT.

    You make a good point. I'm not necessarily opposed. I do wish they had put forward a different female hero first, but they can potentially make her into something good. I just mostly disagreed with the assertion that she deserves a movie because she already has these qualities.
  8. Six Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2014
    star 4
    What mode was she in when she was coldly killing all of Vanko's bodyguards in Iron Man 2? Confusion or fear?

    I mean, the only scene I can remember her really being scared was when she was being chased by the Hulk, which, is pretty understandable.
  9. GenAntilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2007
    star 4
    Yeah in Iron Man 2 I never saw her confused or afraid. In Avengers when the planet is suddenly dealing with an alien invasion led by a Norse deity... confusion was a realistic reaction. And when up against the Hulk that was also realistic, I mean it's the HULK.



    The issue is she's never been in a movie where she is the focus. Iron Man 2 is about Iron Man, the Avengers are about the Avengers, but mostly Iron Man, Cap, and Thor. But she clearly has her own backstory and motivations explained in those movies so she could easily have her own solo movie.

    I mean Peggy Carter is getting her own tv series, did she really have more characterization than Widow has got?

    And for the record I'd support pretty much any MCU female character to get their own movie be it a Sif, Maria Hill, Black Widow, Rescue, Red-She Hulk, etc...
    Jedi Merkurian, Six and Juliet316 like this.
  10. Six Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2014
    star 4
    I think Black Widow would be the most likely to get a solo film. Scarlett Johansson is definitely a big enough star, Black Widow definitely has enough history and stories to adapt. And just think about it, a few years ago did you ever think Captain America or Thor would be able to carry their own film? I didn't. Non comic book readers knew Thor as the guy in Adventures in Babysitting who was basically the butt of a joke. People were debating if Captain America would be able to make enough money overseas(because you know, everybody hates America or something). Well now they're doing pretty well.
    Last edited by Six, Feb 26, 2014
    Jedi Merkurian and GenAntilles like this.
  11. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    And she's a known commodity to the movie audiences already, which makes it a lesser gamble for Marvel/Disney to take than say a Wasp, Scarlett Witch or Captain Marvel who are (for now) relatively unknowns to the MCU, even if some comic fans would prefer them over Black Widow.
    Last edited by Juliet316, Feb 26, 2014
    GenAntilles and Six like this.
  12. GenAntilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2007
    star 4
    Yeah there is a reason they have Black Widow as the main female lead in Cap 2 and not Sharon Carter who would make more sense going by the comics.
    Juliet316 likes this.
  13. Six Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2014
    star 4
    Also, Black Widow isn't related to Steve's former lover so theres none of that creepiness if they hook up.
  14. GenAntilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2007
    star 4
    Well Sharon is in the movie and they've said she'll have a larger role in the future so I'd expect to see that eventually, creepy or not.
  15. Moviefan2k4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2009
    star 4
    Natasha also mentions a similar fight with Hawkeye in Budapest; I'd love to see that put on film.
    Jedi Merkurian and Juliet316 like this.
  16. Moviefan2k4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2009
    star 4
    Steve and Peggy shared one kiss; that's it. They clearly loved each other, but everything was cut short when Steve was forced to crash the Valkyrie into the Arctic.
  17. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    It's not like she's his kid.
  18. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    To me Black Widow really isn't that different to Melinda May in Agents of SHIELD, a badass female who can hold her own with the male agents on her team (or even be better) but also has stuff about her past we don't fully know about. But like Melinda May she is still a supporting character, she's great in a team in a movie or TV show because she brings something extra to the table but I'm not sure how effective she'd be as a solo player. If SHEILD were going to fight someone powerful such as Loki they would get in people like Iron Man or Thor to deal with it since they are powerful enough to do that. SHIELD agents would support only, because they simply aren't capable enough on their own.
    I'm all for a female hero, but it should be one who can stand alone against someone like Loki. I don't see Black Widow being able to do that, but someone like Spider-Woman or Miss Marvel could
    Last edited by SithLordDarthRichie, Feb 27, 2014
  19. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 6
  20. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    Any number of Marvel's collection of female superheroes could be used, but I'm not convinced Black Widow needs or could easily sustain a solo movie.
  21. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    I know not where this doubt surrounding Black Widow cometh.
  22. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 6
    Yeah, I think this debate literally just happened.
  23. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Guys, Black Widow is getting a solo film.

    And I look forward to seeing it.
    Legolas Skywalker likes this.
  24. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    I hope it doesn't end up being Agents of SHIELD the movie
  25. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    It's not a new one. I believe the same points surrounding Black Widow vs other Marvel female superheroes get rehashed literally everytime the possiblity of a solo female superheroine Marvel movie comes up.

    Like I said, it's easier to go with a Black Widow movie as opposed to a female character that hasn't been seen on screen yet, because Widow's already known to movie audiences whereas doing another female hero movie is more of a risk because A) more than likely audiences won't have met the character yet, or only met her briefly through Avengers 2 or a cameo in another male - dominated Marvel movie with less screentime than Widow has gotten thus far, and thus leading to B) the risk of audiences turning away from it because they've been burned by crap movies like Elecktra and Catwoman and have had it beaten over the head by male dominated Hollywood that "Women can't lead movies; especially not superhero movies." With ScarJo's Widow, audiences already have a built - in familiarity with her, and hopefully with a good writer/director, a movie with her has more decent chance to sell tickets than somebody lesser known to audiences like Scarlett Witch or Captain Marvel.
    GenAntilles likes this.