Discussion in 'Community' started by gonzoforce, Nov 9, 2008.
First Avenger: Captain America will feature The Invaders
Hmmm, I dated a Joe Johnston has a teenager. wonders
I started losing hope for this movie the moment I heard about Johnston being the director. Yeah, he gave us Rocketeer... but more recently, he gave us Jurassic Park 3. Give us a director with some talent, rid the movie of that stupid USO thing, and I'll start to care about it again.
One the one hand, cool.
On the other hand, I don't want another Wolverine.
He's also directed Hidalgo, October Sky, and the upcoming Wolfman movie. IMO, he's only got one bad apple in the cart. (Time will tell on Wolfman though, I don't have high hopes for it.)
Also, the USO thing makes sense. I've never read any old 40's Cap books but it was mentioned in recent (last 5 years or so) books that Cap was really just a symbol. They've gone so far to as to have Cap be the symbol while his "sidekick" Bucky went behind enemy lines on secret missions while all the focus was on Cap.
The Invaders on the other hand REALLY make me nervous. If they are anything more than a cameo this is the first sign of trouble.
From my understanding the USO thing grows out of him being the only successful super soldier and the US government not keen on losing that. As Darth Lando says, in their minds he works better as a symbol, and something to inspire the troops. But of course Steve, being the patriot and hero he is, isn't satisfied being paraded around like a living flag, he wants to inspire troops in the field and contribute to the battle.
And the USO thing is there in part to deal with the costume and why a real life super soldier would be wearing something straight out of a comic book. If Steve were forced to be a USO performer, I could totally buy that they would make him a bright colourful costume.
As for Johnston, I didn't mind JP3 as much as everyone else. There are far worse films out there, and he's proven himself capable of telling a decent story. I wouldn't be inclined to count him out yet.
It's been mentioned in the books that Cap was a symbol because of his amazing accomplishments, his willingness to dive into battle, and so on. He is no idle symbol who does song-and-dance. He's a superhero who dives into the thick of things, and America used him as such. What kind of twisted logic do you have to possess to own a super soldier but not use him? They spent all this money on the program, and they're too afraid to actually utilize that weapon? Sounds like the mentality of some RPG gamer rather than that of a government.
Bucky going behind enemy lines is a retcon made so fans wouldn't again call for his death.
Personally, I don't see why Johnston doesn't borrow heavily from The Ultimates. Those comics were made for the big screen, from Fury resembling Samuel L. Jackson to the more realistic approach it took.
He is a super soldier who can do amazing things. But he's still a man who can be killed with one bullet from a lucky German sniper. Plus, as has been mentioned, he is their first and ONLY super soldier. If anything, the Govt. would view him as a prototype. So they protect their investment and keep him away from the front. All they have to really do is put him in newsreels waving the American flag at the top of a pile of dead Nazis. Hopefully, it will all work out once the movie is actually made.
I won't disagree that he doesn't have a drive to win or make amazing accomplishments. But I think those will come later. It looks to me that the whole USO part is really only his origin. It's where he gets the uniform and shield from and stuff.
And while I agree that the Avengers movie should borrow from Ultimates, there wasn't enough WWII era stuff in there to fill an entire Cap movie.
And what if that living weapon fails in the field? Doesn't serve as much of a symbol when he's dead. Given that they can't reproduce the process that made him I can entirely understand why they are reluctant to risk him. How does the saying go?? The best weapon is the one you never have to fire, or something to that effect. So they parade him around in costume to boost morale.
They aren't ignoring Steve's lead-by-example heroism or any of the important characteristics you feel the USO thing negates. Its something he is forced into against his will and he is eager to shed the symbolism and just get out and fight. He grows frustrated with having to sit out and he goes AWOL from the USO tour to join the battle. He's still the character you describe.
The USO stuff is essentially there to establish the costume. I doubt it will be much of anything in the larger film and we will get plenty of the Steve we all know and love.
Exactly. I don't think anyone wants to see Steve say "I"ll stop Hitler with tap dancing!" and then go into a 2 hour song and dance routine.
It does make perfect sense though for the costume origin. A real super soldier would probably still just be dressed in regular uniform, so he doesn't stick out as a target in the battlefield. I just hope they don't make it too costume-y, I want it to still look cool and reasonable.
Well according to Johnston's description, it starts off showy and ridiculous, and as Steve comes to appreciate the power of the symbolism and how it helps him lead, he takes on a more muted form that models military wear but is still recognizably Captain America.
This is what I am seeing in my head.
I think that first picture looks excellent, if that's what they use.
I really don't want to see another Marvel Musical skit as mention in the link above. I'm starting to cringe.
Casting call for the Red Skull
Note: Just IGN Movies' thoughts who should play the villain.
My vote is for either Weaving or Waltz.
See I would prefer Feinnes or Strong. I'd rather Weaving play Namor.
In my head, I always pictured Red Skull talking with a high pitched Skeletor like voice. It's probably for the best that they don't go that route.
I'm pretty excited about this. I've been waiting for a movie that could come along and bomb so badly that it would kill off the comic book movie craze for a decade or longer. And this one is it.
Well, I certainly hope they go back to the USO uniform in the Avengers movie. And there was some speculation a while back that Colm Feore's unspecified role in Thor is actually a Red Skull cameo, and that he was cast long ago as Red Skull in the Cap movie. This wasn't even a rumor, just speculation. But if it's true, that is AWESOME!!!
There wouldn't be any one that could kill the trend. A single bomb, no matter how big, amid the many financial successes won't be enough to scare off studios. So long as certain ones continue to prove to be bankable hits, let along monster hits like TDK, Comic Book Movies aren't going anywhere. You would have to have a year or two of Fantastic Fours, Ghost Riders and Elektras before studio's balked.
Also yay for judging a movie before its even started. They haven't even cast it, let along shot it.
This is a case where the title alone will virtually guarantee box office disaster. No one outside the U.S. will go see this. Not that comic book movies usually do well outside the U.S., but this one will be particularly unmarketable abroad, a kind of "Captain Don't Go See This Movie."
I'm pretty sure Spider-Fan'll go see it.
And where do you get your facts about comic book movies doing business outside the US, man?
boxofficemojo.com. The Dark Knight made less money abroad than in the U.S. Most comic book movies are lucky to get a 50-50 split between U.S./foreign box office. Compare that to Avatar with a 30-70 U.S./foreign split. Spider-Man 3 is an obvious exception. It took a while for that franchise to catch on abroad, but once it did, I guess they decided movie quality didn't matter.
X-Men never really made a big splash abroad.
He may be American and a symbol of America but that doesn't prevent non-Americans from enjoying the film. What he stands for and the kind of character he is can be universally applied. The stories and themes surrounding him are not limited to the enjoyment of Americans but anyone who agrees with his ideals. Those ideals transcend nation or political boundaries. He may be Captain America in name but he's so much more than that.