Amph Captain America: The Winter Soldier

Discussion in 'Community' started by gonzoforce, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. GenAntilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2007
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    Not to mention as we've seen in Agents of SHIELD... SHIELD has TONS more bases and resources than just the DC headquarters. All those places are still potentially filled with Hydra agents.
  2. darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2007
    star 5
    Just thinking about some of the events of the show...wow. Lots of possible
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    Hydra agents.
  3. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 21, 2012
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    So they should keep the organization, check out every member's background and cleanse the organization, not disband it.

    I'm sure there were other Hydra members outside of SHIELD.


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    So you have to keep them on track, not disband it.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Apr 6, 2014
  4. GenAntilles Force Ghost

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    Keep track of them how? Who are they? Sitwell was a Hydra agent, that showed us ANYONE could be a Hydra agent. It's too risky for SHIELD to continue as is. To paraphrase Pierce, to build a better SHIELD, sometimes means tearing the old one down.
  5. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 28, 2001
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    Which is where the show will pick up. Though the actual rebuilding will take place in the films, I bet we'll be seeing the team dealing with Centipede and then going after the Hydra agents, next season, while also dealing with whoever is after Skye.
  6. JoinTheSchwarz Comms Admin & Community Manager

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    I'm kind of assuming that both Centipede and the soldiers that killed Skye's parents are going to be revealed to be part of HYDRA.
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  7. GenAntilles Force Ghost

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    Jul 24, 2007
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    yeah I think by now we can assume they are all just Hydra cells.
  8. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

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    Their background and their former missions, do they have link with the known members.

    If you just disband them, that's really risky because it means to let the Hydra agents go loose and they still have all the information from SHIELD and probably some resources.
  9. GenAntilles Force Ghost

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    But then you get into the issue of how do you tell the difference between Hydra and SHIELD? Coulson was good friends with Sitwell, do we now assume he is Hydra too? Both groups had similar goals and fought the same enemies, they are so close together they might as well be the same group to a degree. That's why SHIELD as is has to go, it has to be rebuilt brick by brick from the ground up, every Hydra element rooted out.

    As for the hydra agents, they'll still be trouble, but the won't have the government funding them or sanctioning them.
  10. DarthWilliams Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2008
    star 4
    Finally watched The Avengers for the first time today (only other Marvel film I've seen is the first Iron Man - I know, I'm a terrible geek). All of the reviews have me pretty pumped to see this film. Should I see the first Captain America first, though?
  11. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 21, 2012
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    What role did they play in Hydra's plan, are they involved in the chaos. It's very possible, actually most likely that the Hydra had a list of their operatives so they knew who to do the real job like the Winter Soldier project.
  12. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    I would recommend it, though The Winter Soldier provides enough exposition to fill you in on what you missed that you could theoretically get by without it.

    However, it's not ideal and a few of the bigger twists in the film won't have the same impact if you're lacking the experience of the first film.

    However, note that TFA has a different tone/style (serial adventure like Indy or Rocketeer) than The Avengers, whereas TWS is much more in line with Avengers in terms of feel.

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    But everyone has SHIELD info on the internet, so much of their advantage is neutralized.
  13. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 21, 2012
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    I always feel weird whenever Rogers was jumping down from the sky. It looked like he would turn into a burst of flame and start flying anytime.;)
  14. Moviefan2k4 Force Ghost

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    Dec 29, 2009
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  15. Saintheart Chosen One

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    Guess we're not going to see that on his MySpace page.
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  16. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
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    star 7
    Disney has solidified its market dominance for the next decade. I was assigned the task of taking a group of 8-10 year old boys to CaptainAmerica: World Police. The boys laughed nonstop during all the fight scenes and fell into puzzled silence whenever the story tried to provide exposition to make sense of
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    the hydra plot
    . Fortunately the movie realized that explaining the plot wasn't high on the list of priorities, so the boys were wildly satisfied.

    No other studio can compete with this model: princess movies for little girls and Marvel movies for little boys. You can almost see the cash raining down over Disney HQ
  17. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Except when it stops the movie 3/4 the way through in order to fully explain the plot, complete with narrated video and images, followed by a full confession 5-10 min later?
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  18. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
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    the plot is utter nonsense, a rehashing of "Star Wars" with an extra overlay of a silly new world order plot.
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    Bucky equals Vader, Redford equals Tarkin, Jackson equals Kenobi. Most adults have seen this superweapon deployment countdown plot or conspiracy plot dozens if not hundreds of times.
    Star Wars minus a streamlined and elegant plot. James Bond minus even the most tenuous connection to the world.

    But that doesn't really matter at all. 8 year old boys are the target market, and they are the only ones who haven't seen this movie yet in countless variations. Too bad they aren't at least getting some refreshing original visuals. The tired rehashing of the hover carrier (Death Star II) is just one more tie in to the success of the Avengers. It's savvy commercialism, no doubt about it.

    Like I said, the kids I took to the movie ate it up, just like the kids who filled the theaters for Avengers. The formula works. Disney is likely cornering the market for little boy movies for a generation. Children are the ones who haven't been around long enough to be bored by the same tired rehashing of plots and characters, so they are easy to exploit with worn out derivative material. Disney struggled to find a surefire lure for the 7-11 boy market until it acquired Marvel. Now they've found the key. The one two punch of the Frozen style girls movie with the Marvel's style boys movie is unstoppable.
    Last edited by Jabbadabbado, Apr 7, 2014
  19. Lord Vivec Chosen One

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    SHIELD should have realized they were infiltrated when people who look like obvious generic movie villain henchmen showed up om their payroll.
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  20. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    How is the Helicarriers a rehashing of the one from Avengers like the Death Stars at all? They are used in completely different ways and function in completely different roles in the two movies. This movie is NOTHING like Star Wars- this isn't Eragon here, lol.

    Also I'm not sure how one can dismiss a movie doing something similar if it's done well. Not everyone will watch movies in the sane order- just because there are 70's-style political thrillers by the dozen doesn't mean they should stop making them.

    And how can you dismiss the plot as being aimed at kids while also claiming it went way over their heads?

    When a story is not only told well and entertaining but also makes the audience reinterpret every other film that came before it while providing major consequences for those that follow, I don't see how you can dismiss that.

    IIRC, you tend to dismiss these films as mindless action films- but then this well-made movie comes around that is 90% plot centered around their most grounded, least fantastical characters/elements, with 5% grounded 1970's/Terminator car chases, shoot outs & tactical action, all wrapped up in a subtext relevant to current day political issues and you still dislike it.

    It just seems like you're predisposed to dislike these movies even when they give you what you want from them.
  21. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Captain America is following the classic CG animated feature formula. Make a simplistic movie for children, but throw in easter eggs, etc., for the adults and/ore older siblings who have to take them to the movies. In this case, for example, Johansson's ass.

    I don't think the kids lost anything by not getting the plot, since the more I understood it, the dumber is seemed. The only thing that I respected about the plot was
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    Captain America being troubled by SHIELD and insisting on it being destroyed. SHIELD didn't need hydra infiltation to be problematic: the Marvel movies were basically glorifying this despotic multinational hyperCIA as the "defender" of democracy. So getting rid of SHIELD was I think a positive move, as long as it doesn't ever come back.
    Last edited by Jabbadabbado, Apr 7, 2014
  22. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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  23. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

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    I keep forgetting that this is a Marvel fan site.
  24. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    It's not really a simplistic movie for children though, if kids can't follow it, is it?

    I don't know many children's films that start off about brutal assassinations, government coups and complex political conspiracies. They're certainly not Easter eggs.

    (Also, I'd be wary of reducing ScarJo's complex performance/character down to the one shot of her behind)

    Your James Bond comparison is valid though- but that's basically expected whenever dealing with SHIELD.
  25. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Come on, 2ndQuest. You're kidding right?
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    Mysterious data storage item secreted out of the organization and landing in the hands of our hero, whose mentor is killed by an arch villain with a shrouded connection to our hero's past. Said Mentor isn't really dead, exactly, and his guidance, along with the data from that item is the key to destroying a new superweapon, the catastrophic deployment of which must be stopped in a kind of dumb and convoluted way...


    It's not the first movie to be a blatant Star Wars rip-off, nor will it be the last, since Episode VII is on the way.

    Ok, I'm curious about this one. What about her character/performance struck you as complex?
    Last edited by Jabbadabbado, Apr 7, 2014
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