Amph Captain America: The Winter Soldier

Discussion in 'Community' started by gonzoforce, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. Sith_Sensei__Prime Force Ghost

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    1. The Chitarui is an invasion force set to conquer earth. They were not there to kill or obtain the Avengers. There would be no reason to follow the Avengers anywhere. The Avengers did the right thing, considering the World Council decided to drop a bomb on New York City.

    2. They were SHIELD buildings and civilian or commercial buildings. "It's all part of the plan" as the Joker put it.


    Yes, parts of Metropolis was destroyed before Superman arrived, but much more it was destroyed after he got there. I think there was about a good 15 to 20 minutes (or it just felt that way) of Superman and Zod throwing each other through buildings.

    Having Superman realize his contribution to the damages would change everything. There would be no arguments as it would be self evident that Superman tried to minimize the damage of Metropolis.
  2. Juliet316 Shelf of Shame "Loser"

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    This. Even if the Avengers wanted to take the fight somewhere else, the World Council had already decided the Avengers were going to fail and that the best course of action was the nuke NY. The same World Council that turned out to have some HYDRA infiltration in it.
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  3. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    I recall that during the battle in Smallville, Kal tried to get some distance, but one of the Kryptonians went all Edna Mode on him. Also, Zod swore to utterly destroy everything on Earth, and Kal was trying to stop him. Trying to re-locate the battle would've just resulted in more dead Metropolites.
  4. EmpireForever Chosen One

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    I was exaggerating before, of course, but the point a lot of people are trying to make is that Superman is careless in his fighting. They just wanted to see more of him being a hero--actively attempting to minimize damage; deliberately putting himself in harm's way or losing the upper hand in an attempt to defend people. This happens not once. The best we get is the murder of Zod at the end.

    Conversely, in Avengers Cap and the other Avengers put themselves directly between belligerent forces and the innocent populous on numerous occasions, nearly sacrificing themselves to save people.

    As to the Helicarrier's collateral damage: one fell on an evacuated Triskelion, one broke up in the air, and the third landed in the river. This damage was minimized as much as could be, and the initial plan called for them to shut down the carriers before they had even taken off.

    In WS cap takes three bullets--in addition to the one he'd already received--fired from Bucky while scaling the carrier to put the chip in, without a thought for his own safety. It's these and other kinds of actions that take place in the Marvel universe that just don't happen in MoS. Obviously people have blown it out of proportion, and maybe you don't agree with their arguments, but it's a valid concern when discussing a movie that says "you must be the ideal they strive for". He never once showcases any ideals in the entire movie: what, as a person watching this fight take place on the news, are you supposed to take from Superman? The general public is not aware of Zod's mental state, or even who Superman is. They don't even know he's defending them. For all they know, as much as the News is able to cover, he's working with Zod, based on the level of destruction that goes on.

    If you enjoyed MoS, fine. Whatever. But these concerns are not invalid.
  5. heels1785 Jedi Draft and Streak for Colors Commissioner

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    If anyone thought they were invalid, pages upon pages in the Captain America thread wouldn't be devoted to a Superman movie released a year ago.

    Its the hyperbole that is unattractive, not the debate.
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  6. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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  7. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Also, we're talking about one partially evacuated building and it's underground dock facilities being destroyed (and most of those that died were military/SHIELD/HYDRA) VS multiple, occupied skyscrappers and collateral causalities amongst the streets below (and most, if not all, of those that died were civilians).

    And, as was pointed out above- the helicarriers weren't supposed to get airborne according to the original plan, so the fact that just the Triskelion was destroyed is a pretty good Plan B given the alternative was millions of people getting crossed off by Project Insight.
  8. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

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    You guys remember when this thread didn't suck and wasn't about Superman?
  9. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    MOS has that effect on things. ;)
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  10. Juliet316 Shelf of Shame "Loser"

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    "The Needs of the Many outweigh the Needs of the Few... Or the One"
  11. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

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    Do I remember when it didn't suck?

    I remember when it wasn't about Superman, anyway.
  12. Rosslcopter Jedi Grand Master

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    As far as Marvel vs DC discussions go I think this is quite fascinating.

    Normally its just @JoinTheSchwarz saying "**** DC" over and over.
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  13. dp4m Chosen One

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    He ain't wrong. :p

    (I think he still likes Batman Begins and The Dark Knight so I'm onboard with him)
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  14. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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  15. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    There is none. Making a point that Clark had good reason to get angry and beat the tar out of someone threatening his loved ones.


    Except as the film showed, the Avengers were able to keep the Chitauri from leaving the immediate area. It wouldn't be difficult to manipulate them into following them back into the portal or out of the city.



    If the Chitarui can be manipulated into staying in a three block area and not going into the larger part of the city, then they can be manipulated anywhere.



    Clark didn't throw Zod into any building except the abandoned construction building. The rest of the time it was Zod tossing and punching Clark into buildings. And we don't know that all the buildings were full. As we saw, Perry ordered the evacuation of the Daily Planet. There were obviously others as well. We see that when Clark lands inside one building and Zod unleashes his heat vision for the first time. And we see it again when Clark goes through another building before Zod takes him up into orbit.



    The public is aware of Zod's mental state when he says that the world will suffer if Kal-El doesn't surrender and then the destruction from the World Engine occur. Not to mention the people of Metropolis see Superman fighting against the man who said that. Not to mention afterwards when Lois reported the truth in the Planet.
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  16. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    The Avengers were able to keep the Chitauri focused on them because they were the ones bottlenecking the portal, killing their Leviathan troop transports and turning back their beachhead perimeter.

    If the Avengers went elsewhere, some Chutauri might follow but now the portal is left unchallenged and they can spread the rest of their forces anywhere in the city while those few follow.
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  17. Diggy Force Ghost

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    So Captain America, Hawkeye and Black Widow go through the portal and...just die?
  18. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

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    Unless you are using "manipulated" as a synonym for "relentlessly killed" then I have no idea what movie you saw. The aliens penetrated no further into Earth because they weren't alive to do so.
  19. Sith_Sensei__Prime Force Ghost

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    What The2ndQuest said above.





    Here's a video clip where Superman charges Zod and causes them to crash into a building with civilians on the streets, also keep in mind that Lois, Perry and others are only a few feet away.

    Here's a video clip where Superman drives Zod into the side of the building where debris and glass is following onto the streets, undoubtedly falling on the people below.

    In the clip below, we see a building and parking structure following on the streets below as innocent bystanders watch in fear and horror. Mind you, Zach Snyder's Superman shows no concern for the people of Metropolis during this battle.



    Yes, we don't see if the buildings are full. However, we do see throughout the battle of Metropolis that the streets are filled with people (about the 32 second mark of the video clip above). People that are being crushed by buildings and structures falling over, which Superman is completely oblivious to or not concerned with as he continues to punch Zod.

  20. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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  21. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

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    Boy I am sure a fan of that Captain America.
  22. Diggy Force Ghost

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    Please post on topic.
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  23. TrandoJedi Jedi Grand Master

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    I gotta say with The Winter Soldier I started to really like Cobie Smulders as Maria Hill! Sif, Black Widow, and Maria should have a buddy cop movie together.
  24. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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  25. Sith_Sensei__Prime Force Ghost

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    I'm still not feeling Cobie Smulders as Maria Hill. Maybe because I always thought Maria Hill of being Latino.