ST Carrie Fisher (Leia) in Episode VII (Sad News posted on Page 269)

Who knows? It doesn't really matter why, as it says nothing about her acting abilities. However, there's a tendency to think that if actors fade away from the spotlight or focus on other artistic pursuits or both, they might have gotten rusty in their earlier talents due to a lack of constant craft-honing. There is actually some rational basis to this thinking as it does take some measure of constant activity to keep one's skills in top shape, like anything else. Artistic atrophy is a real thing.

 

Darth_Articulate Exactly. You have no idea how many people I've heard over the years saying Mark Hamill is a loser or that he couldn't act now to save his life, just because he hasn't made a big movie in decades… *sigh*

 

Carrie Fisher has made it perfectly clear that she never, ever desired to be a huge movie star. She was born into stardom, she was raised around it, and it didn't have any exotic appeal. Princess Leia already made her bigger than she ever wanted. She enjoys performance and writing, but she has mentioned wishing for anonymity and not being the most comfortable with being known.

Unlike Harrison and Mark, Fisher never made any major attempts to parlay her Star Wars work into continued mega stardom and leading roles. She took work as she saw fit, or often from whomever asked, without any particular strategy for a greater acting career. Considering that her acting career has been very laissez faire, it's a wonder she's worked as much as she has, with some pretty impressive talent.

Besides, to casually ask why somebody just "didn't" become a star is disingenuous. Most actors, even the very best, would love to become a star. Quite a few put in the leg work to get there. Most will never make it. Fisher actually has made it further than 90% of actors ever do, no matter what their greater career aspirations.

 

Why do some people find it so shocking or surprising that an actor or actress would give up being famous and stop making movies to dedicate their lives to something else? *jeez* It's like, if an actor or actress hasn't made a big movie in years or decades, then it's always because they're losers or can't act so they never got offered any more roles worth playing. It's never because they chose not to make any more movies, as if there were nothing better than making movies. Granted, I'm sure the money is great, but different people have different goals in life. Just saying.

Yeah, it may come as a surprise to some people, but there are people out there who don't want or need fame. For instance, and this has nothing to do with movies, but with music, there's this American death metal band called Cannibal Corpse and one of their founding members was fired back in the early 90's. I googled him a couple of years ago, because I was really into the band back then, out of sheer curiosity, I just wanted to know what'd become of him and where he was. Well, it turns out, he's no longer a musician and he now plays golf, professionally. He even said no to well-known bands that were actually willing to sign him, just because he didn't wanna be involved in the music business anymore. I mean, he could be out there, touring the world, playing big festivals and making big bucks. Who would say no to that right? Well, he did. And he now leads a quiet life, playing and teaching golf. I guess there's no accounting for taste.

As I said before, I've heard a lot of people over the years saying Hamill is a loser, because he apparently dropped off the face of the Earth, and I'm sure there are people out there who'd say the same thing when talking about Fisher and Billy Dee Williams.

I mean, I am fully aware of the fact that Harrison Ford is just about the only actor from the original Star Wars trilogy, out of those who were basically nobodies at the time, who went on to become a celebrity, a household name and a millionaire and who made big budget movies and stuff, includig Indiana Jones, but I don't know, the rest of them are not losers or anything.

And just because you don't know what they've been up to all these years don't mean you get to judge them and say who's worthy of being called a success by you and who's not.

 

This to me is the biggest annoyance. I understand the ignorance amongst casual movie goers and mild fans, but diehards that are dedicated enough to actually post on message boards and know the backstage nooks and crannies? It's genuinely surprising to me when so many are utterly ignorant to the post-Star Wars careers of everyone but Harrison Ford.

Carrie Fisher never stopped acting.
Mark Hamill never stopped acting.

But I'm losing track of the amount of people on this board who certainly act like their careers died in 1983. You are truly out to lunch when you question whether actors who STILL work regularly are going to be able to...act.

It's like being totally ignorant to John Williams' post-Star Wars career and wondering if he's still going to be able to pull off a movie score.

 

Yeah but Bob Rusay was fired, it's not like he left to pursue his dream of becoming a golf teacher (not a pro).

 

Ganger: Oh, we have another fan. Yeah, but he could've still played and joined other bands if he'd wanted to. And you're right, he teaches, he's not a professional player.

jaqen: Word.

 

She looks great. She's aged gracefully.

 

But no, she chose to be Carrie Fisher instead.

 

All I have to say is that I see no reason to think the quality of Carrie's Ep.7 Leia performance will be any different than the quality of her Ep.6 performance.

 

I really hope it's better that ROTJ. She felt kind of removed during that. She's just there with her different outfits looking great but with little or no character. Cocaine and mediocre writing probably had something to do with it.

I love ROTJ but Han and Leia are a bit of a missed opportunity if you ask me. I'm with Ford when he talks about Han dying heroically.

 

Exactly. Even when she was in high school, her drama teacher had to beg her to come out and act; she wanted to stay behind the scenes and work on the scripts. She auditioned for "Shampoo" as a lark. She auditioned for SW because every actor from 15 to 30 auditioned for it, and she was surprised when she got the part ("The script kept talking about how pretty the princess was, and I didn't think I was pretty at all"): Lucas wanted Leia to be very young but sophisticated and worldly, and at 19, Carrie was the youngest actress they tested who had that sophistication.

With some exceptions, her non-SW acting career has been unremarkable, but she's perfectly happy with that. She'll always be remembered as Princess Leia, but what's so bad about that? I've seen it said that any ambitious would-be artist worth half his (or her) salt would prefer notoriety to neglect. She's riffed on her Princess Leia persona and used it, along with her personal travails, to make a successful career for herself as a writer.

So what if she didn't become a superstar like Harrison Ford did? Few people do. I can't think of any of Ford's co-stars in his other movies who achieved his level of stardom, not counting the actors who already had when he co-starred with them (i.e., Sean Connery).

 

Well there are these things where people talk & it's captured on film. They're called interviews.

It really does pay to read people's comments before responding. If you had you would've seen that I said IF she's required to play a wise sage type how would she be suited to that role. No I don't have a copy of Ep 7 but I can give you a copy of a film called RotJ. In that she's pretty clearly set up to pursue the Force like her twin brother. Ep 7 is set 30 years later, so she may have had 30 years of Force training, which logically means she may be an experienced Master. Added to that is the almost certainty that there will be her own or Luke's children & possibly other young Jedi apprentices in the story. Therefore it's not too much of a stretch to assume that her character may be the wise Jedi mentor type which these young characters will require to guide & teach them. 2+2=4.

I don't know why you people are carrying on. It's pretty simple, not every actor in the world is suited to every type of role. IF the story demands that Leia be the type of character I've described then it's a legitimate question to discuss CF's suitability for that role...bcs it's a very different one to "young Leia" of 30 years ago. Put it another way, the wise mentor roles seem to always go to the likes of Liam Neeson, Morgan Freeman etc. Someone mentioned Steve Martin in a post above as an example of a guy who can act dramatically but is known for other roles. Another one might be Jim Carey. Can you picture either of them being Bruce Wayne's mentor in in the first half of Batman Begins? No, it would be ridiculous. That's not say they can't act. It's just as I've said, not all actors are suited to that type of role. Not saying CF is known as a comedian per se like those guys, but I personally have a hard time seeing her seriously convey wise hokey dialogue about destiny & the Force while she keeps a straight face.
I'd rather the feisty no BS Leia of the OT era, only a bit older. But, GL's story may require her to be that wise mentor type.

 

Darth_Downunder ---You know what? I think at the end of the day, it's going to be a moot point. I'm not dismissing the issue you're raising (you don't think she could pull off the "mentor Jedi" role, I do--let's just agree to disagree there), but I really don't think they'll take her character in that much of an extreme direction. First off, they have Luke to fill that role, and I think 98% of people expect him to do just that. So why would they want to do the same thing with Leia? It just seems redundant.

Now, I'm not arguing that she couldn't have Jedi training, She may even have the skills of a Jedi Master, but I don;t see her going full "robed Jedi mentor" with it. I could be wrong, but I really, really, have a hard time seeing them do that with her. I mean, "younger Leia" was interesting in her own right, so it makes more sense to build off of the character we already know. Older, more mature, sure, but still the same Leia at her core. Why mess with a wining formula?

And if she is indeed still with Han, then I *definitely* don't see her being like that. A serene, wise Jedi droning on about hokey religions,, exercising patience, and not giving into anger? Psssh! That doesn't sound like Han's type at all. They would've been doomed years ago.

 

I just hope she puts her heart into this. That's all I ask.

 

I think you're right about the direction they'll take the Leia character, yanksfan. I see her taking on the Supreme Chancellor role rather than the sage Jedi Master role, which would be Luke's niche.

 

And it pays to state your point in a concise, clear manner. The use of the qualifier "IF" in the following statement that I quoted:

@Yanksfan it's not about her playing just a dramatic role. It's if she can convincingly pull off a wise sage type & deliver hokey dialogue about destinies & the Force. I wouldn't buy Steve Martin for a second in this kind of role. That's not to say he can't do more conventional drama.

Is not in reference to "if" Leia is written as a wise sage, but to "if" Carrie can pull off a Leia written in this manner. It's not my responsibility to read every single post you log onto this board. If you wanted to qualify your view, you should do so in all your posts relating to this topic. Otherwise you end up exactly where you've arrived; trying to be a smart ass with somebody over a mistake you made.

I'm still waiting for an explanation as to how becoming a jedi means Leia would need to undergo a personality transplant.

50 something Leia would simply more than likely be an older version of the 20 something we last saw her as. Getting older, and gaining some wisdom, doesn't magically turn you from a Princess Leia to an Albus Dumbledore.

Any writer worth their salt is going to try hard to create a logical transition so that the audience isn't left wondering who the hell this character is. This isn't a 2 hour kitchen sink drama, there isn't time here to completely change a character and then get into an in depth exploration as to why you don't recognize them anymore.

We're talking Indiana Jones between part 3 and 4 here, not a total character transformation due to the apparent mysterious, personality altering magical powers of the Force.

Of all the things to be concerned about this is among the silliest I've ever seen on this board.

And people said similar about Robin Williams before he started blowing people away in dramatic roles.

Pointless anyway since both Martin and Carey have successfully pulled off dramatic roles. I can very easily see Steve Martin in a wise mentoring role, particularly since he pulled off similar kinds of scenes with a younger character in Spanish Prisoner. Jim Carey reads too young for an Alfred type role, but older or opposite a super young Batman? Definitely, he has the resume to back it up. My favorite Carey roles are all in dramatic films; The Truman Show, Eternal Sunshine, and The Majestic.

 

If you're going to criticise it wouldn't hurt to take 30 seconds to read a bit more of the conversation. A quick scan of the previous posts would've shown that I was clear that this is just a possibility rather than a certainty. & no we shouldn't have to re establish what we mean in every single post during a conversation, that's ridiculous.

Really? Well it seems you haven't been paying attention to Star Wars let alone the other films you've mentioned. Let's look at Ob-Wan in TPM. Young, brash, impulsive. Then look at Old Ben in ANH - a classic wise old sage if ever there was one. How old was Obi in TPM? ...in his 20's. How much further in time is ANH from TPM? ...30 years. How old was Leia in the OT? ...in her 20's. How much further in time is the ST from the OT? ...30 years. See my point? How was this miraculous "personality transplant" achieved for Obi-Wan?? Maybe through 30 years of experience & knowledge of the Force.

As I said, it's not about whether they can do conventional drama. They definitely can & so can CF. That doesn't mean they're well suited to the wise mentor role in a fantasy film. When these roles come up they call Liam Neeson, Morgan Freeman etc. I doubt Steve Martin or Robin Williams get approached for those parts often.

 

Super bad example. Ignoring the fact that TPM Obi Wan was written decades after the original...

We don't go from TPM Obi Wan to ANH Obi Wan. There are two films between those films that show his transition.

The comparable example, from a narrative POV, would be ROTS Obi Wan to ANH Obi Wan. Decades in between, and no luxury of a film to show change.

And look at that, ROTS Obi Wan and ANH Obi Wan are extremely compatible for someone watching in order; wise, powerful, but with some reckless qualities.

There is no Star Wars Episode VI.5 - The Chronicles of Princess Leia coming down the pike. We aren't getting any kind of set up film that will allow the paying audience to see a radically changed Leia, Han, or Luke. So the likely outcome is going to be the Indiana Jones Road; same characters, just updated enough to show the passage of time.

Except Robin Williams won his first, and so far only, Oscar playing the wise mentor role in Good Will Hunting.

 

Nice try but Ob-Wan from TPM is an appropriate example. You need someone in their 20's to compare to OT Leia. The 20's is when people are brash, impulsive & they possess an "attitude". No point talking about RotS Obi-Wan as an example. He was a late 30's Jedi master! That's absurd as a reference point.

Whether there are films in between showing the transition is a completely separate point. The Ep7 writers still have to add 30 years of experience (possibly including decades of Jedi training including training of the mind) to Leia's personality. Therefore my original point stands, she may have matured from her 20's to her 50's to the point where she's a wise mentor type to the next generation. This is a reasonable proposition. Calling it the silliest thing you've ever heard is just making you look silly.

Except Robin Williams won his first, and so far only, Oscar playing the wise mentor role in Good Will Hunting.[/quote]

But not in a fantasy film delivering hokey fantasy dialogue! That would be a ridiculous role for him IMO.

 

yeah, this is extremely likely that the characters we saw in ROTJ will be basically the same characters in Ep. 7. Some logical extensions, Han & Leia married (or even separated) but having a kid seems to be logical. Luke being more Force-y and showing someone younger the Force-ropes is logical. Leia going from "He wasn't on it, I can feel it" vaguely implied Force-sense to "fully trained Jedi Knight who gives Force lectures" seems a bit out there from the character we last saw. She'll probably be Leia, still somewhat uppity, calling the shots of the Rebels/whatever they are now, still able to hold her own in a military situation. Maybe a bit Force-y but I'm not expecting a lot. Sure as heck not full of Jedi Council Master, yadda yadda yadda.

 

Well how will that makes sense, unless they say she decided not to learn the Force at all. Anyone watching RotJ was left with the clear impression she'll pursue the Force like Luke did.

Luke: "You have that power too" "In time you'll learn to use it as I have"
Yoda: "Pass on what you have learned. There is another Skywalker"
Vader: "If you will not turn to the Dark Side, then perhaps she will!"

Then she's clearly shown developing her mental Force sense, & that's without any training.

If, as GL always says, it's one big Saga & episodes are meant to be viewed in order then it will be pretty jarring to go from all that to the next episode where she's barely had any Force development...in 30 years!

 

It would seem like a stretch to me that Leia is, like, teaching Force lightsaber levitation 101 from the last time we saw her character. That's a bit of a jump.

 

It's a jump for me to imagine Luke teaching it when we first see him in ANH on the farm. It's not a jump for me to imagine Luke teaching it right after RotJ. That time period is only 4 years. For Leia here we're talking 30 years! You're just saying that bcs we last saw Leia pre Jedi training, like Luke in ANH.

I agree though, it's potentially a storytelling challenge bcs we haven't seen the progression.

 

Except sorry, the example is still bad.

Obi Wan started off the film cycle as an old, wise sage character who had a bit of a mischievous twinkle in his eyes. A prequel was written nearly two decades later to show him at 25 or so. In order to contrast and show some kind of trajectory, he was AFTER THE FACT written as a brash, impulsive Jedi with an "attitude". Much like Anakin was purposefully written to be a pure, young innocent to contrast with the Vader we already knew. There was a specific narrative need for those choices.

Princess Leia however was never "young". Ever. Carrie Fisher was hired as a teenager because she possessed qualities that projected far beyond her years. Leia started off these films reading older than her age; sophisticated, snarky, a leader in charge of people three times her age. By the time we get to Jedi, regardless of Leia's calender age, she's a fully developed and grown woman. If it wasn't for her youthful body (which even that read older than her age), she could as easily have been 50 as 23.

Where is this brash, impulsive, young Leia that needs to be updated 30 years later and turned into some wise, tired old Jedi who sits around spouting hokey, cheesy dialogue about the Force?

Where is the narrative need to take an already mature character and make her...just more mature?

If you say so. I happen to think Williams is about one of the most versatile actors ever, and could easily pull off a Yoda/Gandalf type role.