ST Carrie Fisher (Leia) in Episode VII (Sad News posted on Page 269)

Awesome ! Thanks!

 

Or crashing motorcycles head-on in mid-air. In slow motion.

 

Ah yes. The greatest hug in movie action history.

 

Problematic on several fronts:

A. The films aren't beholden to the novels. You can't turn to one of the novels based on the films, and then make a conclusion about what's in the film. Doesn't work that way.

B. There are several things in the novelizations that contradict the saga. For instance the Emperor isn't a Sith nor does he have any powers, Jabba is a completely different species, and Obi Wan doesn't purposefully sacrifice himself in the ANH novel.

C. The original scope of the "force", pre-midichlorian concentration and force sensitivity concepts, had that the Force was in, and around, ALL people. Leia wouldn't even need to be a "force sensitive" person to focus her own life force and concentrate it on a task at hand.

 

And let's not forget that in the novels "Uncle" Owen is Obi-Wan's brother!

 

The ANH novel is very vague about Jabba, describing him as "a mobile tub of suet topped by a shaggy scarred skull"- and about the Emperor - though it does characterise him as "controlled by the bootlickers he had appointed to high office". Obi-Wan also alludes to "the later corrupt Emperors" implying that the current Emperor isn't the first.

A case could be made that the novelizations show, to some degree, what was in Lucas's mind at the time though.

As of ROTJ, Luke says "The force is strong in my family" - so it may be that Leia was supposed to be able to do more with it untrained than a normal person could.

 

I'll give you everyone of those but Jaba choking and the Lando untrustworthy. But yes Resisting the Mind Probe she had to use the force. And I'll give you the speeder bike cause it's true, she didn't have the training and guided it with ease but she was in the resistance, maybe she got training somewhere else but the Mind Probe over all others I agree she used the Force.

 

That doesn't mean everyone has the same potential to manipulate it. There is no change in the Force's "scope". And an imaginary difference between the trilogies has little relevance to the question of ROTJ Leia anyway.

 

No she didn't "have" to use the Force because originally Leia was conceived as resisting the mind probe...without using the Force.

 

Umm, the point of that section of the post was to note the irrelevance of the PT on the context of ROTJ upon release over 30 years ago.

You tried to correct me...and ended up restated my intent.

 

Now you're just being stubborn. This isn't about winning a debate. The novelization was written by James Kahn in consultation with Lucas. It doesn't matter that some other details were changed from book to movie. What matters is that the things that were not changed & that don't contradict should be taken seriously. For the novel to go to the trouble of clearly stating that she used the Force in strangling Jabba is at the very least very strong evidence that this was the case. & it makes perfect sense. Given a Hutt's size it would be like strangling an elephant or a whale using just regular human strength, in fact that of a slightly build young woman. Ridiculous when you think about it. Anyway the official novelization certainly trumps fanboy speculation, so we can close the book on this one, pun intended.

Your point C is a bit out there! Not sure what you're trying to say. We know the Force is "within everything". All living things & even objects are surrounded & penetrated by it. So? We also know that only a certain few can harness this power & use it in this manner. That's what the whole damn Saga is about! Could Porkins have used the Force is he concentrated really really hard? No he couldn't, as far as we know.

 

Since the post in question was in response to another post which only cited the ROTJ novelization and didn't talk about the PT at all, "noting the irrelevance of the PT" doesn't seem like an appropriate response. Who was basing their argument on the "relevance" of the PT? Leia was still a Skywalker in the almighty OT even if the PT is ignored.

 

I think, ultimately, your statement that it "doesn't matter" works best for me.

I have never seen Leia's choking of Jabba the Hutt as a specifically Force empowered move.
I think that's beyond stupid.
The film Return of the Jedi, which is all that matters to me, doesn't state or even imply that it's a Force empowered move.

Therefore I'll continue going on with the explanation I've always had; Leia choked Jabba out of the sheer "force" of her strength, anger, and adrenaline.

 

Almighty OT?

Is the root of you consternation some perceived slight toward the PT?

If so, wrong party. I'm a whole saga fan.

 

Try actually reading the posts you're quoting. You're factually wrong.

 

OK.

 

Wow, talk about obstinate. The official novelization released by Lucasfilm tells us she was channeling the Force & you don't buy it! If GL himself called you up & told you I think you'd still just believe your own version. "Yeah George sorry but you're wrong, that's beyond stupid" !

Just a thought: If a Skywalker using the Force for enhanced ability is beyond stupid then the entire saga is beyond stupid. It's kind of the basis for the whole story.

 

I didn't say George Lucas was wrong. I said I, personally find it stupid. It's a FICTIONAL film Downunder. I'm not going to lose any sleep continuing to think Leia strangled Jabba under her own strength, and I doubt George would. And the FILM of ROTJ doesn't contradict me.

I think other parts of the saga are stupid too.

I think Padme dying from "losing the will to live" is stupid.
I think Jabba's scene in ANH is stupid.
I think Anakin building 3PO is stupid.

And all of those are undeniably supporting by their actual films, unlike Leia choking Jabba using the force, which is NOWHERE mentioned in ROTJ.

Why how I chose to view ROTJ is is such a bee in your bonnet is absolutely beyond me.

And guess what? I STILL think the idea is stupid, even after this ultimately pointless debate.

 

Nothing wrong with thinking it's stupid & I agree with your other examples. I do personally find it odd that it's easier for you to accept that a slightly built girl could strange a huge beast like Jabba than accept that she was aided by the Force, especially since it was in the movie that points out that she's beginning to use the Force at this stage in her development. I can't see how this notion compares to your other excellent examples of stupidity. Anyway, my surprise was not about whether it was stupid but that you seemed to disregard the novelization as a strong piece of supporting evidence to shed light on the question.

 

Well, er…..we still have a leg to stand on as far as the Lando example goes. Now *that* is a bad example. *elbows everyone* Am I right, thread? Well?

Come on, I almost DARE you to prove that one is the Force. Now this getting kinda fun…..

 

Lando is an absurd example. Any guy that's greets a woman with "hellooo, what have we here?" isn't going to be trusted. You don't need the Force for that.

 

Dang it! *scribbles that off his list of pick-up lines*

 

Actually, she has a bad feeling about two events that prove her right twice, no? Once in the space slug's mouth and the second with Lando?

Yeah, you're right. It is absurd. Anyone can sense something's wrong. It doesn't take a psychic to get a feeling about something, especially if the situation calls for it.

 

Also when she knows the Empire are tracking the Millennium Falcon! & when she knows a simple panel on a wall leads to the garbage chute!!

 

Exactly.