ST Carrie Fisher (Leia) in Episode VII (Sad News posted on Page 269)

You know how Han and Leia fans are like. We're like this:

 

I thought that they handled it well. Come to think of it there's no overtly romantic kissing at all in the film. The most romantic (or potentially so) are hugs. Han and Leia's last scene, Finn and Rey on SKB. Heck even Finn and Poe's hug when they see each other again (if you subscribe to that particular ship). Hmm, interesting.

 

They wouldn't dare!! I'll bring the torches and pitch forks if anyone even considers it. Isolder and Bria don't exist in MY canon.

I just watched it again. When he's talking about taking down Starkiller Base, you can see a look in her face that makes it clear she's missed his bravado, and knew it was now or never to let him know how she felt, and to apologize for pushing him away earlier. Though he was was smart enough this time to not let her.

I didn't want a hit steamy hot kiss but more of a sad longing, like in Empire, before Lando comes in only moreso. The kind that indicates they are sad and yea little happy too. Their embrace was much longer than what we saw. One can have kissing without getting steamy, and still be sad. I was hoping for a bittersweet intimate moment, more than what we saw, but not full on. I think they did go further, but more of a just hold on to each other as long as we can, like our lives depend on it.

I think they never mentioned d the ring as it will be important later. I've given up hope that she's a Solo, there just isn't a way to make it work.

But they know who she is. Rey knew who Leia was from her mind meld with Kylo and also that Han was Kylo's dad.

So I guess it makes a weird sense that Rey would want to comfort the widow of the man she saw as a father figure


Leia shooting would have been great. As soon as he saw the transport, he was totally lost in the moment, scared and eager. He was utterly relieved that she was smiling and not angry.

She was as smiling because he was there waiting.

I would have liked to see some sort of acknowledgement of their history, but not overt. Even just some nerfherder/ Your Worship joking. Something to acknowledge the greatest romance in science fantasy.




Posted by HAL 9000 via Tapatalk

 

I know this was discussed at the Han Leia Fanfic Blog, but do you think either of them got involved with other people during their separation? I guess if we want to go with "realism", it's kind of unrealistic to expect a man like Han Solo (played by the incredibly handsome Harrison Ford) to be celibate for years and years, when we know he was hanging out a lot in cantinas and would have had plenty of opportunities with other women. I like to think that even if he had some meaningless flings, he wouldn't have gotten seriously involved with anyone else. Leia I think would have just thrown herself into the Resistance and everyone out completely (although apparently the fanfic writers on Archive of our own are insistent on pairing her with Poe *rolls eyes*). I know JJ Abrams and Kasdan were going for "realism" in TFA, but I prefer the fairy tale version that they remained faithful to each other, even if it is unrealistic!

I will riot if the EU tries to pair either of them up with someone else during their separation years. Funny that between the two, Han is probably the more likely to cheat, but the old EU was actually worse on pairing Leia up with other men while she's with Han (Xizor, Isolder, Denid, all those guys in the Marvel comics...)

 

I mean I've never complete been onboard with "womanizer" Han. His portrayal in the OT seemed more like a serial "flirt," but not necessarily a womanizer. Now did he have SOME flings before Leia, probably. But not as many as some people might think. You could also make the argument that the trauma of losing their son, combined with being apart, may have put a damper on any romance for both of them.

 

Yeah, that seems to be a lot of people's head canon based mostly on how good looking Harrison Ford is and how charming Han is. I think some people are mixing Han up with Indy. There was this great post on tumblr a while back that totally debunks the Han is a womanizer myth, in that we never see him interact with another woman other than Leia in the films, he doesn't try to flirt with Leia, but rather treats her pretty rudely when he first meets her, and then in ESB he's basically completely smitten with her.

I know there was a rumour in the old EU that Han was going to have an affair during his estrangement to Leia but LFL killed it; hopefully they would do the same thing for the books during Han and Leia's separation if anyone tries to suggest it.

In the old Legends, Timothy Zahn has a book between ANH and ESB that has Han feels guilty for even flirting with a fellow female Rebel (purely to make Leia jealous), so he obviously wasn't even sleeping with anyone else during that time. If he could go 3 years being celibate without even being in a relationship with Leia, he can hopefully go several years being celibate while still being technically married to Leia....

Even though I think Leia would be less likely to cheat of the two during their separation, the EU has done some really terrible ideas with her and other men before, so I'm actually MORE scared they're going to give her a love interest than Han in the books set during that time period.

 

I really don't see either of them having any flings. Leia was closed off and buried in her work to cover up her pain and hide from it.

Han was just broken, and had lost his zest and a lot if his Han-ness. I think he may have joked around or flirted, buy he had no real interest in letting anyone get close. They seem to speak a private language of sorts, that only they understand.

ANH Han died in the carbon freeze. Leia didn't fully come alive until he entered her life and brought out her ability to think about her self and feel love for herself and be loved in return.

It was like finding something you didn't know was missing, and never looked for
But once you find it, you wonder how you ever lived without it.

Come on JJ, give this faction of the fandom something ok.

You already stuck them with a spoiled, ungrateful, tantrum throwing Vader wannabe brat, who has delusions of Sithdom. Give us something good.

They deserve better, and so do their fans.

Posted by HAL 9000 via Tapatalk

 

Well said, and I totally agree.

 

Posted by HAL 9000 via Tapatalk

 

Sob! And how did Han and Leia have such a weird looking kid?

Another reason why I don't think Han could be hooking up with other women is that Chewie would be by him all the time. I think Chewie would rip his arms off if he tried anything But you're right IamZam, unlike in ANH, he doesn't seem too interested in socializing and meeting new people. I imagine outside of business contacts, he wouldn't have been open to new friendships and just relied on Chewie for company.

 

unicorn Rey fits perfectly, Ben looks and acts like he was switched at birth or something.

Like wtf? He must have been a major handful. I'm amazed none of them took up drinking..J/k.

Way to destroy a happy family, kid.

Anakin had his flaws, but at least he was likeable as a good guy, and a total badass as Vader.

Kylo's just a mess. He has some badassness but he has no self control, or tolerance for frustration.

We can sympathize with Anakin /Vader, but Ben/Kylo just makes my mom radar go crazy. Kid needs a throat hug bad.


Maybe Grampa Ani will show up and smack some sense into him

On ore serious note, after watching it yet again, I've noticed that when it comes to Snoke, Kylo almost acts like a prisoner with a severe bizarre form of Stockholm syndrome.

The worse Snoke treats him, the more he sets out to impress him and win his approval.

Part of killing Han was to make himself stronger, but I think it was also to gain Snoke's approval. Which really makes me wonder just what kind of number Snoke did in this kid.

Nobody, even in the GFFA, comes out of the womb like this.

He made his own choices, but he was born with a target in his back.

Posted by HAL 9000 via Tapatalk

 

"Anakin was a likeable guy." In TCW, yeah absolutely. In the PT, not so much.

 

I liked him, he had faults but he wasn't a brat like his grandson. He was a bit whiney, but not as much as some people think. I could understand where Anakin was coming from.

He was a naive kid, thrown in a world he wasn't ready for, dealing with the pressure of being the chosen one. He was supposedly the most talented, but had the least world experience.

I was one of the people who liked the PT. No where near as much as the OT, but it was still good imho.

He fought the dark, until he finally let it consume him. He had trouble letting go.

Ben is fighting the light, and wanting to be dark. He wants to let go of everything. He thinks if he can be like Grandpa, everything will be okay and he'll stop hurting. He's like reverse Anakin.

Posted by HAL 9000 via Tapatalk

 

He was a creepy psycho stalker, I didn't like him at all. With Ben, well I at least get him more.

 

I didn't see it that way, but I can agree to disagree as I can see how others might view it differently. He wasn't a stalker, as much as someone who was very naive and socially challenged.

Ben may have been born with a target on his back, but he was also conceived in love and a had a family that loved him and made sure he had a good home, with all the perks and advantages that come with having a highly respected, high ranking family.

In some ways, I think Ben may have been the victim of having too much. I don't think he was spoiled or doted in, as much as I think he was the first of his family to be born in to a life of ease.

Leia had wealthy loving parents, but she also grew up in a war time, with parents who were leaders and founders of the rebellion. She was trained in leading from a young age. By the time she was a teenager she was a fairly high player in the rebellion, as we see when ANH starts with her trying to get the Death Star plans to the rebellion.

Luke grew up on a struggling moisture farm raised by a step Uncle and Aunt, and had no idea who his real parents were. Han pretty much raised himself, with no one to really look out for him. I have no idea if Dewlanna is still canon or not.

I get the feeling that Ben never really had to struggle for anything, he was powerful and a lot if things may have came easy for him. His family didn't struggle and he lived in a time of relative peace. He was most likely the center of everyone's universe, possibly to his detriment.

I may be wrong but that's my take away. He seems to only want the approval of the one who keeps rejecting him, Snoke. That guy has some weird hold on him.

I know he would have had problems that his family would have struggled to help him with, and somewhere in all this was Snoke but if anyone should have turned out right it was Ben .

Yet those that struggled and faced hardship in their lives turned out good while something went horribly wrong with Ben.


You can't blame it in a crappy childhood. I doubt anyone outside their close family circle knew their connection to Vader. I'm sure Ben's training would have started at an young age.

I still see him as reverse Anakin. Kylo is far creepier than Anakin or Vader. Vader just dispatched his foes and moved on. Kylo has meltdowns, an is an emotional mess.

Posted by HAL 9000 via Tapatalk

 

Of course you are right. As parents nothing is more important to us than our children, and that is the case for Han and Leia. It's just us H/L fans that can get a bit greedy and selfish because we want more.

 

Perfectly stated. It's what I've been saying from the beginning. That Ben is in some kind of thrall or altered state with regard to Snoke, that we know that Han and Leia loved their son and that they were unable to prevent this horrific turn, and that taking Ben and turning him into a First Order stooge is the most powerful psychological weapon imaginable.

Snoke was somehow--and we don't know the circumstances yet--able to infiltrate the Solo family, and steal away their beloved only son. It's freaking TRAGIC, on a Shakespearean scale.

 

Absolutely. It is a plot device (and one that is effective) in order to make Han and Leia blameless, and give us drama and something to work with in the Kylo Ren character. Is it too much a redux of Vader, maybe. But it is effective. And I would wager it will be the main thrust of this new trilogy. My only worry is that it will fall primarily on to the Rey and Luke characters being the active participants in this. When it would be more dramatic, more viable, and more interesting and original if it is Leia. I'm hoping they trust Fisher to be active in the plot. She can do it!

 

I don't think Anakin was likable, and I don't think "Ben" is likable (although unlike with Anakin, we haven't actually seen Ben yet). They're both brats. They're both self absorbed and self indulgent. They're both narcissists. I actually think they have tons in common.

Both are awesome villains, though. One of the things that I really like in Kylo Ren is that they combined the evil in Vader with the bratty qualities of Anakin. Together, those traits make a super unstable and therefore scary villain. I expect we will see Kylo Ren develop more control and evolve closer to mature Vader before he is redeemed (if he is redeemed), and I'm excited to see that evolution. He's just really compelling.

But as a Han and Leia fan, I'm so heartbroken that this is how their story ends. It's so twisted and sad. I really hope LF recognizes that SW isn't just dark. I know the next movie will be dark, but I don't watch SW for endless tragedy. I want to see something happy happen for Leia.

 

I think Anakin was completely MEANT to be likeable. The intent of Anakin, Padme and Obi were to be another Big Three. And leave the audience devestated when he falls. To me, it just went over like a lead balloon. (Not to start a debate).

 

Changeing back to the ST, we don't really know Ben at all, or much about it. We can all speculate, but we've only seen Kylo.

The fact that his parents still live him and his ant him back, tells me that he was probably a good kid at one point. Troubled for sure, but nothing like what we see now.

I've been wondering what it was that make Snoke decide now was the time to make his move, to pick THIS kid.

We know he's been around for ages. He was the rise and fall of the Empire, and was probably around for ages before


Was it Palpatine or the council the kept him from trying to use or get to Anakin, was he in some sort of weakened state?

Why didn't get get involved when Luke showed up. He clearly seems to have known what was going on. There had to be a reason he picked Ben, the kid who at least from the outside to us, would seem like a poor choice.

He's got people looking out for him, he's got a family, he was branded a chosen one, or tasked with saving the galaxy.

Yet he has this strange hold on him. He turns against all that he loves, and that loves him, to appease this being that basically treats him like poodoo. He turns against the father figures of his actual father and his uncle who had his best interests, and would have been proud of any accomplishments, and seems to only care about gaining approval from the one who treats him the worst, and wants him to do evil.

The more I think about it, the more I see a form of Stockholm syndrome, abused children syndrome.

Not his real famiky, who would have treated him with love and acceptance, but this mysterious Snoke we know little to nothing about.

How was Snoke able to get inside his head like that, how was he able to get under the radar I'd some one like Luke, or even Han and Leia who both would be able to smell a con job.

I mean Han pegged Finn right away.

Too many questions.

Posted by HAL 9000 via Tapatalk

 

Great analysis of what could have gone wrong with Ben. Unlike the OT heroes, who grew up in hardship and a time of war, Ben was born into a life of privilege and peace. With the love of Leia, Han, Uncle Luke, and Uncle Chewie, he never wanted for anything and was likely a bit spoiled growing up. I could see Han, who never had a family, wanting to give his son everything, and Leia, who had Bail pressure her from a young age, try to give her son the childhood she never had. He grew up knowing that his family were galactic heroes and likely felt insecure. We can see that insecurity and emotional immaturity still in TFA. I also wonder if Leia and Han weren't originally for him wanting to be a Jedi, and tried to steer him into other venues - like flying or politics - but he grew more and more obsessed with the Force and grew resentful of Han and Leia for keeping him from reaching his full potential, so Leia relented and sent him to Luke.

Now that we know he didn't go Dark until very recently, I'm really curious about the circumstances under which he went Dark. He had the love of his family and had grown up among the Jedi Padawans he later slaughtered. He was a fully grown adult and chose to make the decision to throw everything away for the Dark Side. What could Snoke have possibly offered him to turn around and betray them like that? Did he leave for a few years and come back (and if so, did Han and Leia separate then or after the Massacre?)? Was he playing double agent to Luke while serving Snoke and how did Luke not realize it? I wonder if Luke sensed he was going Dark and deliberately withheld training him fully, and Ben got resentful and turned to Snoke for guidance. Snoke then manipulated him into thinking that Luke was holding him back because he was afraid of his power and Ben let his lust for power get the better of him.

One thing I think is certain, if Ben went dark at 23/24, you really cannot blame Han, Leia or Luke. It would be like blaming Shmi for Anakin turning Dark. I hope Bloodline will show that Han and Leia still have a relationship with their son and visit him at the Jedi Academy to put an end to the Han and Leia's bad parenting turned Ben to the Dark Side nonsense.

 

unicorn

Claudia Gray noted in her review of The Force Awakens that the identity of Kylo Ren was one of the things she was spoiled for before the movie. Not positive if that 100% indicates that it was knowledge she has to know in order to write the book.

I found this commentary by anghraine discussing Kylo Ren and his circumstances and it has been percolating through my thoughts since.