ST Carrie Fisher (Leia) in Episode VII (Sad News posted on Page 269)

IMO, there is absolutely nothing likable about Anakin in AOTC and ROTS.

Kylo isn't likable either. But he's a much more compelling character. He is what Anakin could have been.

Perhaps we'll get a PT remake, someday.

 

I don't think that Kylo is meant to be likeable (unlike Anakin, who clearly was). Kylo is just meant to be "understandable," which is NOT necessarily the same thing.

 

I figured she would have had to known that Ben becomes Kylo. Because even if Ben hasn't turned yet, he must be pretty far gone already, no? Han in the novelization says "He was always drawn to the Dark Side" and Leia set him away, presumably as a teenager, because she feared he was going Dark. If he's at Luke's, I wonder if we'll see any Leia/Ben interaction, or just have Leia's thoughts on her relationship with him. It seems like the book with mostly be about Leia as a Senator trying to warn the Republic about the First Order.

IamZam, I really wonder what Snoke's history with Han and Leia is. Was he a trusted family friend who fooled them and infiltrated his way into the family? Or did he just use the Force to get into Ben's head? In the novelization, he whispers in Rey's head to use the Dark Side, so I'm assuming he did something similar when Ben was a child. If that had been going on with Ben was a young child, it's a wonder it took him to 23-24 to snap. Kylo really does sound like a brainwashed cult fanatic - "The Supreme Leader is wise" - no one who isn't brainwashed says something like that! It's why I find the idea that we should take his POV that Han was a disappointing father at face value so silly.

 

He had to have some kind of rude, maybe like Palpatine who was able to appear totally non threatening and fool even Yoda and the Jedi council by hiding in plain site. Snoke may have used a similar ruse. He seems to have powers we've never seen before, that let him get inside people's heads, like the old demon on his shoulder.

We all have choices to make. There is much out of our control, like who are parents are, and what circumstances we are born into. We have certain personalities, but aren't a slave to them.

Why identical twins in the same family can sometimes turn out totally different speaks to the forces we don't understand.

It isn't just the circumstances we come from, a good poker player will tell you that how you play the cards is more important than the hand that you are dealt. A good hand makes it easier, but played wrong a good hand can lose to a bad one.

What little we do know of Ben is speculation from watching Kylo, and from what we know already about his family and the kind of people they are.

However there are a lot of events that probably played a big part in Ben's fall that we know nothing about.

We know that he was loved. We know he had a solid family, and extended family.

We don't know what he was told about his legacy, or at what age. We don't know how he reacted to this.

We know Leia had a lot of issues with being Vader's daughter, and would probably be scared of what that could mean for her child.

We know Han used to think they Jedi were a myth and a hokey religion, but now he's seen it first hand, but probably still prefers something a little more concrete. How does this bode for his being the father of a Jedi, and Vader's grandson too boot.

We know that Luke is basically the last and only trained Jedi in the galaxy attempting to rebuild the order from scratch in his own. We don't even know of he still has help from ghostie Obi-Wan and ghostie Yoda or not. Jedi aren't infallible he likely made some mistakes.

We know that the Death of Vader and the Emperor didn't instantly end the war, as there were still many other little heads to cut off and smaller fires to put out.

We know Snoke has been around since before the Empire. But where was he and who is he. Why did he stay hidden until now? Why do we only see him in hologram? Is he going something? Holograms can be deceiving, he may not even be as he appears.

Why did Snoke pick Ben? What did he do, how did he get so firmly in his head that he could get him to turn on everyone.

What events happened during his childhood, during his training and before the massacre?

Lastly we have the Rey factor? Even though she wasn't born until Ben was ten, her existence and unknown to even her abilities are surely an important part of what went down.

These are only a few questions off the top of my head.

We can't compare one person's struggle to another's. Matter how similar they are, they are never exactly the same. But there are some universal truths.



Posted by HAL 9000 via Tapatalk

 

I'm guessing Snoke picked Ben because he knew that the blood of Anakin Skywalker ran through him. But it is strange that he picked Ben, and not Rey when Rey was left alone and would have been much easier to manipulate. Leia said he was watching Ben from the shadows at a young age, but did she mean he was physically "there" through the Force, or was he just watching like Palpatine was watching Anakin in TPM? I really hope we don't get a back story where Ben is basically evil as a kid like that devil kid in The Omen. Poor Han and Leia if that's the case.

Oh and I found the tumblr post that I was talking about earlier, debunking the head canon that Han is this sauve womanizer:

ugh, like there is LITERALLY no canonical evidence for the ~han solo: space womanizer~ head canon. like, when he first meets the ONE female character in the entire series that he interacts with he is GROUCHY and SHOUTY at her, not sauve and dashing. she thinks he is a tool and tells him this multiple times. not really smooth and charming.

he then takes to following her around on Hoth and practically pulling her pigtails asking ” DO YOU LIKE ME? YES/NO? (PLS SAY YES)” with hearts in his eyes. (Chewie probably had to throw out like a HALF DOZEN old notebooks that were filled with awful power ballads/poetry/odes to her and “Mr. Han Organa” written in different fonts)

when it comes to the iconic ‘i know’ in response to Leia’s proclamation of love, Ford has stated that it’s out of PURE CONCERN for HER FEELINGS (“the point is that I’m not worried about myself anymore, I’m worried about her” - DIRECT QUOTE), it was NOT a ‘boss’ move or ‘so swagtastic it hurts’ it was an apology that he couldn’t be there for her, it was an attempt to make her smile, to make it hurt less than if he had said the words too and then was forced to leave her. (not that he would have been much help; remember that han solo spends the majority of the 3rd film mostly blind and feeble, unable to take care of himself and generally getting in the way while Leia Gets it Done)

when he does say the words, it’s with the most adoring and awestruck expression. those words are fused with more than just love and respect. he’s almost HONOURED that he gets to love this badass babe and that she allows him to exist in her orbit.

AND THEN he loves Leia so much that he’s willing to step aside so she can be happy with the man he believes she wants. and valuing a woman’s choices and feelings over your own is not exactly womanizing behaviour - so where did this headcanon come from??

 

unicorn exactly
He strikes me as the type whoay have had some fun, but kept everyone at arms length.

Face it, he's a very good looking man, he's probably had lots of women try to hit on him or go after him. Yet who does he fall for, but the one woman who stands up to h, tells him off and basically tells him what he can do with himself.

He may have put on a public show before she walked into his life, but I don't see him as the type to be real interested, or to let anyone that close.

He falls for the one woman who is many ways his mirror opposite. He's to wrapped up in himself, she's too wrapped up in everyone but herself.

It s fitting that they belong together. She's a royal, and would be used to people fussing over her and bowing down. I'm sure there were a few suitors who tried.

Naturally she fell for the guy who refused to do any of that, and talked back to her with the same snark she dished out.

I think they were equally smitten at the same time. He was just the first to admit it, he knew it was mutual, but she wasn't able to admit it.

That's why the I know is perfect. It's a little private wink between them. His way of saying everything will be okay. He had to be literally pulled away from her and kept his eyes on her until the end.

When she pulls it back at him in Jedi it's a full circle private language of theirs. Her way of acknowledging that he was right all along.

After the separation (TFA), I doubt either of them would have been interested in anyone else. They were still married, and both were far to loyal to the other to violate that vow. They didn't separate because they fell out of love, or grew to hate each other. They just couldn't cope with a very tragic situation.

Honestly, I think she can handle losing him, better then he would handle losing her. But she was beyond devastated when she felt him die. The fact that she felt it, and that his last thoughts were if her says everything. I'm betting she picked up on it. Not in a mind reading way, but in a even when he's not with me I can feel him way.

That's why I want to believe they had a last sad time together. That if they had to end this way at least they ended knowing that the other always lived them.

It's also why I'll never forgive JJ for bit throwing an I Know bone in there. My head canon put one in there.

There is no way to please every faction of any fandom, and this one has a lot of them, but you could try to appease the major ones. Like the little girls with Han Solo posters over their beds, who are now middle aged women with money and who still adore their first make believe fantasy boyfriend and his one true love. A woman many of them wanted to be like.



Posted by HAL 9000 via Tapatalk

 

It's funny how some male fans of Han see the "I love you" "I know" thing as "Oh, Han Solo is so cool, he's the ultimate dude bro. His girlfriend expresses his love for him and he just gives a cocky answer back!" No, it's all about Han showing that it's all about HER, not him. Harrison Ford's discussion with Kershner behind the scenes explains that. He says it because she already knows HE loves HER, it's been her who's the one who's been resisting. That's why it's so perfect.

I think neither of them fell in love before and weren't looking for it, and both were surprised by it. There's a line in the ROTJ novelization that they were each other's first loves. That's why in the old EU the whole Han being in love with Bria for 10 years just rang false to me, I always pictured him as a loner before he met Leia. I hope they don't do a Bria Tharen equivalent in the Young Han Solo movie, but I doubt it. Probably just an Indy girl equivalent.

When I first heard that their separation was for 15 years (because people thought Rey got dropped off on Jakku the same time as the Jedi massacre), I thought that it was probably inevitable they were both involved with other people because well, that is a LONG time to be separated and you are essentially divorced by then even if you are technically married. Now that we know it was probably only 5-6 years, I don't think they got involved with other people. I think both of them expected, at some point, to be reunited, and were just waiting for the other to make the first move (which is a total Han and Leia thing to do, they're both too stubborn for their own good).

I know some people have commented Han's death won't change much for Leia because she wasn't with him anyway, but I think she always felt his Force presence with her, even though he wasn't around. She probably used it to "check up" on him while they were separated. Her feeling him dying was feeling that extinguish. I agree that Leia would better be able to cope with Han being gone because she has her duty, the Resistance, while if Han lost Leia I think he would just be even more broken than how we saw him in TFA.

Sigh, I hear you on the lack of Han/Leia in TFA. I read a review that said "Given that Han and Leia's love story was such a huge part of the Original Trilogy and crucial to Han's character development, it's odd to see it get such the short end of the stick in The Force Awakens". I think JJ Abrams got a little star struck with Harrison Ford's star appeal and giving him a lead role that the other OT characters got short changed. Would have been awesome to see Han and Leia working as a TEAM together like they did in ROTJ instead of split up.

 

Maybe it's because I'm an old lady and just don't get it, but it seems to me that most Tumblr posts are just fan fiction in essay form.

 

I probably shouldn't of said that about Tumblr posts since I have so little experience with them. It's just that the very few that I've looked at came across that way. I'm sure that there are well-written and well-thought out ones. I apologize to Turmblr bloggers and readers.

 

That's what I was hoping for, some of the old them, even if they had both grown and matured, "somethings never change".

I'm sure just jest felt comforted knowing he was out there, and that he did love her. They both wanted back together, they never wanted to separate in the first place. They're just stubborn and have a hard time coming right out to say " I was wrong " so they always do a verbal tap dance, where each know what the other means

That's why he didn't let her push him away after they looked at the map, and she came after him when he was leaving. Neither explicitly said "I was wrong". But the message was clearly there for the other one.

That's one reason I love them so much. They can say a lot without saying anything

The I know also works, because she was the only one who would have understood exactly what he was saying

Posted by HAL 9000 via Tapatalk

 

I wonder what kind of movie we would have gotten had Lucasfilm/Disney chosen a director who wasn't a professed SW fan with his own preconceived idea of these characters and the direction their lives had taken? Maybe Han would still be alive and Leia wouldn't have to deal with the knowledge that it was her impassioned plea that ultimately lead to the death of the love of her life. Sadly, I have to admit I'm still feeling a little bitter over the decisions that were made. I've loved these characters for 38 years and championed their romance throughout the course of the OT. It really saddens me to see them taken down the estrangement road and I can' t even begin to express my heartbreak over Han's death. I just wasn't ready to say goodbye to him. Mini rant over.

As to whether or not either of them would have had flings while separated, I'm of the opinion that they wouldn't have. They were still married, and obviously still loved each other very much. It would seem out of character for Leia, as least as I perceive her to be, because she's loyal to her family, and those she calls friends, and I believe she would still take her commitment to Han very seriously despite being physically separated. She is also very focused and probably feels the only way to heal her family is to defeat the evil that is once again rearing it's ugly head (pun intended), and thus putting all her time and energy into forming the Resistance. For Han's part, he seems a broken man to me and I think the last thing on his mind would be a sexual liaison. I also believe him to be as committed to Leia as she is to him and would understand if he ever hopes to reconcile with her that she may not be so forgiving if he stepped out on her. Besides that, he has his big, furry conscience to keep him in line. Right or wrong, that's my take on it anyway.


On a side note, if anyone is looking for a good romance movie, I highly recommend The Choice. Besides being romantic it was also funny, poignant, heartwarming and a little heart breaking. And the two main characters are a little reminiscent of Han and Leia.

 

Still a better love story than Twilight...

 

I remember a reviewer commenting that they didn't understand why they split up Han and Leia because the exact same story could have been told with them still together because they spent so little time together. It wasn't like Indy/Marion where them getting back together was a big plot point. Han could have been off on a Resistance mission and ran into Rey and Finn, then Leia finds out he's in trouble on Takodona and runs off to save him. Wouldn't it have been a great Han/Leia reunion to have Leia show up, calmly shoot off a few stormtroopers behind Han's back, and then she says something like "Why am I always saving you?" and Han grins and says something like "That's why I married you, sweetheart." Then their scenes would still have conflict because they would have disagreement over whether Kylo could be saved or not. It really would have affected none of the storyline, plot wise.

I think Han in going back to his old ways in the life he had before ANH might have been tempted to also go back to his single ways. But if he expected to reunite with Leia at some point, he wouldn't have gone there because he knew there was no way he could hide that from her. When Han makes that comment to Finn "Women, they always find out..." I got the feeling he was referring his marriage to Leia. She had the Force too, so I doubt he could ever sneak anything past her.

Gee, since both Padme and Leia ended up having tragic love stories, maybe it's for the best if Rey doesn't fall in love with anyone. So far the Star Wars universe is 0/2 of couples ending up happily together. I guess 0/3 if Luke's wife (Rey's mother) is dead too....

 

I like our version better. They could still be dealing with tragedy without them being broken apart. I always pictures that as unstoppable and and unbreakable once they united. They might have struggled, but were string enough to handle anything, even a prodigal son, who hasn't yet seen the light.

At least the actors understood this, even if the writers missed it.

I doubt Han was even tempted or interested after they went separate. He's not dead, but he wouldn't see any other woman as coming close, and not wanting anyone that wasn't her. He may have put in a false front to fool himself as much as others because false bravado is what makes Han Han. I'm fairly confident she was the only woman in his heart.

They really needed to get some women in the writing room, not just the old fan boy, girls have cooties club.

If they had to make them end sadly, at least they could have did it in a way to mirror ESB, but turn it around. Where she is the one saying I know to his wanting to come back, and say I livee you.

Hot and steamy is out of place, but sad longing and holding on to each other works. He's still sacrificing himself out if love, only this time it's for both her and their son.

Now poor Leia has to be close to her breaking point. Though I'm betting even gone, he's still there with her. I'd love to see if that ring has an inscription. Anyone bet it says something like "I know".

It will never happen , but I would have stood in line for a movie just about them kicking ass throughout the galaxy. So glad for books and fanfics.

I think there is probably a special " heaven" for all those who payed the ultimate price because they dared to love a Skywalker. Basically, Han's some where chilling with his non force sensitive in-laws (the Organas, the Lars, Shmi and Padme) because the Force has a way of punishing those who are close to the Skywalkers, especially in the case of Han and Padme who fell in love with one, and died as a direct result. Just my head canon exploding to make handing this disappointment a little easier.

Finn better run, and poor Chewie's days are probably numbered. J/k.



Posted by HAL 9000 via Tapatalk

 

In the old EU, they went through countless tragedies and always came out stronger. There was a quote from Troy Denning about that:

|This would be especially true of Han and Leia, who lost both Chewbacca and their son Anakin to the enemy. It's often said that personal tragedy either draws a couple together or drives them apart, and breaking up the Solos is not an option. (Even after the NJO, some ideas remain off-limits.) So they would have to emerge from the war closer than ever, realizing that they have the strength to face anything -- as long as they are together.

 

I don't care what JJ thinks. United they stand. They were strong willed people who got stronger together.

There's a reason they were each attracted to a take no poodoo person.

Posted by HAL 9000 via Tapatalk

 

For some reason, it won't let me add to the post after the quote. It would have been nice to get that version of Han and Leia in TFA, instead of the cynical one we got. Lawrence Kasdan had a quote about Han and Leia's relationship that said "It's just like real life, you have good people trying to be partners to each other and it's not working out. 50% of marriages end here on Earth, it's the same in a galaxy far far away". But injecting real life into a fairy tale story seems a bit silly to me. I mean this is a galaxy where we have Force ghosts and lightsabers, we're going to put Jerry Springer in there? I mean "realistically" shoudn't Leia be basically catatonic all throughout ANH after seeing her entire home planet destroyed? Instead she's exchanging wisecracks and banter with Han and Luke. I just think TFA started off with the galaxy in SUCH a dark place it would have been nice to have Han and Leia working together to defeat the First Order instead of Han running away. Maybe it would be "unrealistic" because most marriages don't last after the death of a child, but this is Star Wars, not Revolution Road.

I prefer the version in the EU, where no matter how many losses they go through, they always came out stronger in the end. There's a quote from Jaina in Invinicible, where she defeats Jacen Solo, about how she thinks how Han and Leia always emerge from every tragedy stronger and more in love than ever.

 

Exactly. This is a fantasy, not Danielle Steele. They should have a happy ever after.

I always pictured them as becoming one of those inseparable couples that eventually die together of old age. ( never mind the 13 year age difference assuming character ages roughly match actor ages).

Any real earth woman having been through half what she has would be somewhere between incoherent babbling and full on catatonia.

Deleted my image due to language

Posted by HAL 9000 via Tapatalk

 

My grandma went through something like that...she lost her baby at birth,my grandpa,and her parents in a 4 year span.

 

Yes my mom also. She lost everything in a house fire twice, once a kid and once as an adult shortly before marrying dad. Out of 13 there is only her and two of my aunts left, and she's been a widow for almost 20 years.

 

I feel like Han and Leia were drawn to each other, at least initially, because they opposites in many way:

Leia-She's the no-nonsense, tough as nails, all about duty and responsibility/natural leader, who's wholly committed to her role and getting the job done.

Han-He's the cocky, swashbuckling, fly by the seat of his pants, roguish scoundrel who avoids responsibility whenever possibly.

So he probably saw in her someone who doesn't take any of his crap and will throw it right back at him (which attracted him to her), and she represents the more "respectable/stable" life that he on some level probably wished that he could have, but dismiss the possibility of that ever happening. And being around him allows her to "let her hair down" so to speak, loosen up and have some fun. It's a case of "it shouldn't have worked, but it did."

 

It all happened with my grandma in the 50s when she was in her early 40s and my mom was between ages 10-14. My grandmas been gone for 23 years now.

 

From Tumblr.

 

Opposites attract and meet in the middle. In some ways they're so different they are alike, if that makes sense.

 

IamZam

I've thought that very same thing. Maybe a little 'female advice' would have tempered the male point of view and been a little more sensitive to such an iconic romance.

unicorn

Not to mention space ships that can travel faster then the speed of light and super weapons that can destroy whole star systems. Personally, I find this 'but it's real' excuse to be totally laughable and absurd. George Lucas created SW as a fairy tale and I remember reading that even Harrison recognized it as such. The definition of fairy tale is: an interesting, but highly implausible story. Somewhere down the line it seems Lucasfilm and Disney forgot that.