ST Carrie Fisher (Leia) in Episode VII (Sad News posted on Page 269)

Welcome, GeneralAutum. It's good to see another Leia fan here.

Here's the thread for Leia in Ep. VIII and beyond.

Carrie Fisher (Leia Organa) in Episode VIII

 

Sorry if i made anyone mad D: didn't mean too.

 

Maybe that is something that I missed - I happened to miss typical, energetic Leia scenes, a woman that never backs down, not even to Vader. I missed some of her strength/wit/big mouth. The Leia in TFA seemed to be just a heartbroken old lady without power. I only watched it once, maybe it gets better after another viewing but I did not get the Leia vibe at the first viewing.

 

They basically sidelined her and I unfortunately understand why, Fisher's acting wasn't very good. The Leia I knew would have gone with Han to save her son Kylo, instead of meekly begging Han to turn him back (the OOU reason here being that they didn't want to give Fisher that many scenes). Also: She spends all this time searching for Luke and then when she finally finds him she sends some stranger girl to him?

 

She's a General and the leader of the entire Resistance movement. Her front line days are over. I didn't see Mon Mothma running around on Endor in ROTJ, so I didn't expect Leia to be doing the same on SKB.

 

She definitely wasn't needed for the X-Wing attack. The Leia I knew lead from the fronts. Even in Bloodline she is more "Leia" than she is in TFA.

 

If they thought Fisher's acting "wasn't very good" and she couldn't handle it, they wouldn't have given the character of Leia nothing but emotional scenes in TFA, and put the character in the position to have even more emotional heavy lifting for this trilogy than the last.

That Fisher "wasn't very good" is your personal opinion, and one you're absolutely entitled to. But suggesting that the filmmakers feel the same way, and constructed the movie accordingly, will require more evidence than "I feel this way, ergo everyone feels this way".

Leia was "sidelined" in the same way that the majority of characters her age, and sex, in these kinds of films are "sidelined". Leia is no longer the sexualized love interest, so her place becomes more symbolic, her part supporting. This same thing has been done to actual Oscar winning actors in similar franchises.

And if we're going by screen time, I guess they also thought that Mark Hamill "wasn't very good" either. Leia's in the film nearly 10 times longer than he is.

I suppose they also thought 2 time Academy Award/Emmy/Golden Globe nominee Max von Sydow wasn't very good either. He has a brief part in the beginning before having his character quickly killed off.

The bulk of TFA is concerned with Rey, Finn, Kylo, Han and Chewie. By comparison almost everyone else is "sidelined". Award winning actors were "sidelined". Legendary SW characters were "sidelined". But interestingly enough I wonder if you likewise thought all the other "sidelined" characters were put in that position because the actors aren't "very good".

 

Obviously I am just speculating like everyone else as I am not personally involved in production. Take my post or leave it, there is no hard evidence to be had and I doubt that will change anytime soon.

However, Hamill's absence was apparently because of the danger of him outshining everyone else. That doesn't sound like they were worried about his acting.

 

I for one hope she is in it more. I really enjoyed her performance.

 

I'm just curious how you can look at a film that has award winners and legendary characters alike fighting for screentime, some getting as much, or even less than Fisher, but the conclusion is that she was the one who was sidelined because of bad acting. For example I was surprised to see how little Max and Oscar, to extraordinary actors, were in TFA. It seems an odd conclusion to jump to that Leia being likewise shifted to a supporting character is because Fisher is a not very good actor, but be silent on the several others who likewise were shifted in a supporting role.

Now if the film was suppose to be about Luke, Han and Leia in the leads, and Leia's part got cut severely, but the other two carried on like it was 1983 all over again, that would lend more credence. As it stands? This sequel to ROTJ featured only Han Solo and Chewbecca as the returning characters who had hefty screen time. Luke, R2 and 3P0 were sidelined. Lando wasn't even included. Leia at least was part of the promotional material and got more than any of them did.

Let's not twist the facts here. The claim is that LUKE SKYWALKER, the master jedi, might overshadow the preceding. A sort of potential dues ex machina.

Nobody ever suggested that Mark Hamill the actor was in threat of overshadowing anybody. That you even typed that is mind blowing.

 

Sometimes I read posts here and wonder if we are all watching the same movie.

I thought she did great. Her days of the metal bikini are over, as time stands still for no one, regardless of who they are. Hollywood seems to think, for the most part, that if you aren't a size 2 and under 30 than you might as well not exist. I for one appreciate her realness in not trying to be someone she no longer is.

I would have liked to see a lot more of her, and more scenes with Han. I still don't like the idea of them separated, even though I can understand/not understand it. I'm so glad to see the EU writers understand us shippers better than the movie writers (still looking for a dart board to hand JJ's picture on).

Speaking only for myself, though I have a feeling many others will agree, I prefer her to a lot of other actresses/media figures because she is real and not some made for TV image. What you see is what you get, if you don't like it than tough nuggets.

 

With the little she got to do (and I blame Abrams and some of his ideas for that), I think Carrie, an Emmy-nomited actress who had her own show on Broadway, gave a great performance, returning to a character she hadn't played in over 30 years (not to mention she still had such a chemistry with Harrison).

She nailed it in the scene where Leia feels Han's death, and when she gave Rey that embrace. No words were needed, just Carrie showing emotions.

That's why (rumours of a coma aside) she seems to have a bigger role in VIII (and an even bigger one in IX, according to its director). During the filming of VIII, Carrie was on set from the very begining until very end, right along with Mark and Daisy, and even after John and Adam had finished filming their scenes. She even went to Ireland with Mark, Daisy and Adam, even though people are obsessed with saying she was always just visiting.

 

The issue here is that, regardless of how anyone feels about Carrie's acting, it's flat out odd to suggest that Leia's part was reduced because she is supposedly a bad actor. As I mentioned before, it's odd that other actors who faced the exact same, if not worse, sidelining in TFA aren't having their threads plagued with these kinds of accusations.

Now moving along...

Do I think there were issues with Leia in TFA? Yes. When it comes to the Big 3 I think Han, obviously, had the easiest transition from Jedi to Force. Harrison Ford has remained very viable as movie star for decades. As a result his aging was less jarring to the audience at large, and Harrison was obviously the most comfortable navigating this kind of material on this kind of level. He seemed very comfortable, very at home. It also doesn't hurt that Harrison had great writing in TFA, the best writing he's gotten as Han since TESB.

I don't think Carrie was bad, but you could tell it was a tougher acclimation for her. The roles Carrie has played over the last many years are all very different than Leia. Most were bawdy, sardonic women, or wise crackers. Truth be told, as much as I adore Princess Leia, and Carrie in the role, Leia has never been Carrie's most "natural" part. Carrie shined brightest in ANH and TESB because those films still had some edge to Leia. ROTJ and TFA provide Carrie with writing that focused more on Leia's maturity as a leader, her strengths as an emotional support system, a constant fighter. But there's not a ton of humor in either picture, leaving Carrie not a whole lot to do. Leia's primary role in TFA was to be the symbolic leader of the Resistance, Han's estranged love and exposition for her son's fall.

I think Carrie did well with most of her material in TFA, save a rusty moment or two when I felt she was trying too hard. But I would have appreciated a script that brought a bit more opportunity for Carrie to bring some fire, some spice, some humor, like she does so well. I also think opportunities were missed for Leia to have a bit of action. They could have shown her blasting a few stormtroopers during the battle on Takodana.

More time in TFA was dedicated to giving us a great final Han Solo. That cost us some Leia, and to a much more greater degree, Luke.

I think the reality at this point is that Leia fans are being put in a position that we'll have to be grateful for whatever we get from this trilogy. Leia has aged out of big budget fantasy flick sexpot territory, and Carrie's leading man is out of the picture. Leia's use is limited, much as Luke's is. Disney didn't take the Star Trek original cast route, so these films are not about her character, they are solidly about the next generation. This was always going to be the case, regardless of who was playing Leia.

 

I loved TFA, but I thought Leia was the weakest of the Big 3 (well Luke didn't say anything, so we'll find out in Episode 8). After watching the documentaries it sounds like Carrie Fisher was sort of rusty with her acting, as it's been a long time she acted on a consistent basis? I don't know if I blame JJ or Fisher for making Leia so bland in TFA, as she didn't have that spunk from the OT. Now of course I wasn't expecting ESB Princess Leia snapping one liners at Han, but I just thought she came off very stilted.

Now my one hope is when she is seeing Rey off to see Luke, I thought her delivery 'May the Force Be With You' was much better then her earlier dialogue. I would like to know if they shot these scenes in sequence as she looks much more comfortable in her short scene with Rey, then with Han and the Resistance.

I feel bad saying it cause I love Leia and her character from the OT is iconic as she drove the humor in that trilogy. It just feels that JJ didn't really know what to do with her in TFA as there was almost a respect factor that he couldn't get a better performance out of her by actually telling her that.

 

The "Snoke Exposition" scene as I like to call it was poorly written, and it's not Carrie's fault at all. That's my major gripe with TFA.

 

They had to cram 30 years of history into a two minute scene, so I struggle to really think its awful, but it definitely didn't quite hit the mark.

 

It hadn't been a long time since Carrie acted. She did a major guest appearance on Legit just a couple months prior to filming TFA. Carrie said her first day of filming was tough, not that she struggled with the whole shoot.

I think Leia's lack of spunk comes down to the final edit. Looking at the "Jakku Message" deleted scene? That's classic Leia and, even with that short of a scene, Carrie is owning the scene.

The final edit of TFA leaves Leia in the position of mostly being a reactor to the other characters. Leia's not written as "spunky", save one or two moments.

 

Yeah, I saw many fans complaining that line but not about the performance of Carrie on it.

 

Doesn't help that I'm still not sold on the name "Snoke".

 

A youtuber compiled the scenes for several characters (though he clipped too much and left out some parts, so the screentime is a little off). Looks like Leia was in the movie for about the same amount of time as Hux and Poe.

Gotta admit, that surprised me a bit. I perceived she was in it less. Perhaps because I put more weight on her appearance than most, so I'm internally counting down the time.

 

Reminds me too much of Snake, but not in a good way. I think that might have been part of their intention, but I can't say it with a straight face.

TFA will always rank near TPM in my ordered list of SW films, but I don't totally hate it. I loved her in it, and wish we saw more. It sounds like there will be more in the next two, so at least we have that going for us. But they cut the reunion so short and they shouldn't have even been separated in the first place. I miss the OT banter, that was one of my favorite things about their relationship, it was how they communicated. To me it felt like there were a few pieces missing from the puzzle that ruined the picture.

I get that this is a handing of the torch to the next generation and I expected that. It wasn't Carrie's performance, which I enjoyed, it was the material she was given to work with.

I seriously need to get my JJ dart board set up.

 

I loved TFA, and I enjoyed most of what we got. As I said right after, I would have liked a little more Leia, action and politics wise, but overall I was fine with what did appear. I appreciated that Leia was brought back as THE major figure of the Rebellion Resistance and that she was playing a significant part in the plot of the film. I remember rumors, suggestions, and even some hopes, that she'd basically have the role that Lore Sam Tekka did; brief cameo than knocked off early.

This isn't an VIII thread, so I won't go into it here. But I am encouraged by Carrie's shoot schedule and by her daughter's comments that she looks great in this new one, and is killing it in the acting department.

What Leia wasn't, isn't, and never will be again is a lead character. Something I'm fine with and expected from day one.

 

I'll take any of Fisher's line deliveries over things like, "I bypassed the compressor!!!" or "I'm in charge now, Phasma, I'm in charge!!!"

Sorry I thought she was great, just more of an issue of her scenes shortchanged. I think my favorite nuance is when she gives Threepeeo the stern look after he's interupted the reunion with Han. That is classic Leia.

There's a major critic of Fisher and her work for over thirty years... And that would be Carrie Fisher herself. And she would probably admit that always came from insecurity. But I always thought she was a fully committed, wonderful performer. Heck even when I was a little kid, I knew Han, Leia and Luke weren't real and it was more about the fun of watching actors.

Yes, I do wish Leia had a few more inserted scenes along the same vein as the deleted scene. Anything where she's more active and has that snap. And if I were in the writers room, I'd probably lobby for her also to go on the Starkiller adventure no matter how impractical it would be.

 

And that's a shame. A bad actor doesn't just accidentally land two Emmy nominations within 3 years. A bad actor doesn't just accidentally find themselves on Broadway in a one woman show that garners her the best acting reviews of her career and some major theatre awards.

She's a respected, decorated, talented actor. And like many artists, she's her own worst critic.

 

I get it though. I can't watch any of my work for years later. I think she even joked in a recent interview about hating the way she looks in the new film, wishing it had happened ten years earlier. And then quipped she probably will wonder what she was complaining about ten years from now. She was always worried about the shoe dropping that production would find out she's too fat, can't act or not pretty enough... "Bring in Jodie Foster!" I find that endearing.