PT Casual dissing of the PT in mainstream coverage of Ep VII

For a movie to make $400 million in 1999 (and even now with inflated ticket prices), the movie has to get repeat business. This only happens if the movie is well liked. Ergo, TPM was well liked.

$43 million on a movie that came out on Blu Ray a couple months before is pretty damn good. Not to mention that the 3D phase was dying at this point, anyway. Jurassic Park, a film that few will actually argue on its quality, made about the same amount as TPM.

AOTC's performance was much like Empire's. Both are middle chapters that grossed less than their predecessors and the film that came after. Not to mention that the summer of 2002 had some crazy competition.

 

I can kinda agree with that. I mean, I didn't like them. Interestingly, theres a couple of casual SW fans in my age demographic (ie grew up with the Originals in the 80's) where I work. Their fondness for the OT is mainly a nostalgia thing with them rather than a serious devotion to SW. They watched the prequels at the cinema (well one of them didn't actually persist beyond TPM. He didn't hate it as such. He said he just suddenly realised he found himself numb to it. He didn't care. "Effects and music aside, It was amateurish" his words. Anyway, these forums are pretty much a safe haven for fans that did like them. Which is a good thing.Not that I'm one of them btw

 

I am not facts adverse, Maychild. Simply pointing out numbers do not wholly reflect how a product is received by the consumer that is why such spats are faulty.

 

I wasn't talking about you.

 

Thank you for clarifying that. It reflects that PT was widely seen, I do not think many would dispute this. Reception is a diverse element within said group.

 

I know that. My point was that it kept doing repeat business despite all the hatred being spewed at it. Some people have rewritten history -- including some cowardly movie critics who initially gave TPM good reviews but swiftly backed down once the basher bullies got to them -- but the PT continued to do well financially.

 

Good. It isn't bad to like what society says is unpopular in some cases. I would say PT is such a one.

 

No, seriously, guys. A movie's gross or DVD sales doesn't necessarily = "people loved it." I saw TPM multiple times in the theater (I was trying *so hard* to like it). And heck, I even own all the PT movies on DVD. I'm not sure why. I *never* watch the first two films. I guess SW just triggers some dormant OCD tendencies in me where I *have* to own all the SW movies, even though I don't like them .

 

Want to send me the TPM DVD? I only have the VHS version of it.

 

Yeah, but then my SW set would be incomplete, my OCD would flare up, and I might develop a twitch or something.

So...no.

 

Not to be rude, but so what? I seriously doubt that everyone who saw the prequels multiple times in the theater and bought them on DVD did so because of OCD, or OCD tendencies.

 

The point is sales don't reflect reception.

 

Neither does the OCD tendencies of one person who owns movies she hates.

 

That was Hasbro's mistake, it would have been the same if they overproduced and flooded the stores that way regardless of which movie was being rereleased. And I don't know what's going on in your city, but in my neck of the woods the shelves have been keeping quite warm with OT stuff for some time now.

 

Didn't say it did, Maychild.

 

Yes, what Cushing's Admirer said. And I'm not suggesting everyone who bought it had OCD tendencies (which was kind of a joke, I don't know why you latched onto that part of my post, but okay). There's a lot of reasons things make money, and it's not necessarily because the product is particularly good. I was merely pointing out one example of this. Which happened to be mine.

But really, I totally hate when people trot out box office numbers to support whether a movie is "good" or not. Terrible movies can make lots of money, and excellent movies can be totally ignored. It's just not a legitimate measure of quality.

For instance? Do you know what the top grossing film of 2014 is so far? Transformers: Age of Extinction.

I mean, come on. Please don't tell me you're willing to say this movie was "good" just to win an argument.

 

Ah yes, ye olde misreading of terms.

I never said it showed TPM was good. There is no way to show that it, or any movie for that matter, is good, because "good" is a subjective term. I've been told repeatedly how good the LOTR movies are, and I still think they're pretentious, boring piles of crap. I've been told repeatedly that Mara Jade is a good character, and I still think she's worthless and loathsome.

I said it showed TPM was liked, or at least, showed that it wasn't "universally hated," as we're now supposed to believe it was/is.

I haven't seen Transformers: Age of Extinction, so I can't give an opinion on it. I haven't seen it because it doesn't interest me; none of the Transformers movies have.

 

I am like Yanksfan. I wanted it to be good and was struggling a bit with what TPM was showing me. I recall very clearly watching the midnight viewing and about 15 minutes in asking under my breath, "what the h*** is this?!"

I did see it about 3 times and came to like parts of it, but there's many weaknesses in my opinion. I felt that way then and still do.

I can see a valid point that maybe some bashing occurs because of a herd mentality. On the other hand, I knew many in 1999 saying they didn't like it. Their reasoning was simple. They honestly didn't like it.

 

Where's your proof I didn't notice the 'haters', Maychild? Just because I don't respond EVERY blasted time doesn't mean I didn't NOR that I condone it. Kindly stop speaking for me.

 

*sigh* Fine, but my point still stands. Lots of $$ doesn't mean it was greatly loved, either. (Again, I point to Transformers--panned by critics and audiences alike. But it still made tons of cash). That said, I'm not saying TPM was "universally hated" either. Obviously there are people who like/love it. I wouldn't constantly be pulled into these types of arguments if that wasn't true.

Money should just be kept out of these arguments altogether. It doesn't work on either side. (Blade Runner and Princess Bride flopped in theaters. But whatever you personally think of those movies, you have to admit they tend to be very highly regarded now).

Well, it's nice to know we'll always share common ground as far as LOTR and Mara Jade are concerned. So there's that.

 

Maybe you liked it before you found out that you were supposed to hate it.

 

So quite a few people must have liked it, even if they didn't bother to state their opinions in polls or whatever. And I never said that lots of $$$ means TPM was greatly loved. There's a vast difference between saying something was greatly loved and saying something wasn't as hated as "common wisdom" (which means whatever an individual wants it to mean) says.

I didn't say you'd said that. But other posters keep saying it was widely/universally disliked and those who won't admit that are in denial or ducking behind conspiracy theories.

I know TPM was disliked, by quite a few people. Like I've said before, many times, it would be hard for me not to know that, as I'm reminded of it every time I go to a SW-related message board. But there is a lot of propaganda out there that claims "we all" hated it, "we all" haven't forgiven Lucas for making it, etc., etc., etc. That isn't true either. I don't know if there's any way to prove, or even really measure, whether it was more liked than disliked, or more disliked than liked. But I do know which side gets all or at least most of the attention: the dislikers. That presents a skewed picture of the fandom.

They were poorly reviewed, too. So was It's a Wonderful Life and The Wizard of Oz, which are regarded as classics now, but I keep hearing that TPM was poorly reviewed and that "proves" it was bad.

That a movie was poorly reviewed proves nothing to me anyway. I've seen many highly acclaimed movies, including movies that have won Oscars, and thought they were utter crap.

Also, there are movies that I don't think are good, but which I like. Guilty pleasures, I believe they're called. Alien vs. Predator, for instance. Good? Nope. But I like it.

By the by, I don't think Princess Bride is good (among other things, Buttercup makes me want to puke), although I do think Blade Runner is good.

Well, we always did share common ground on that. You've written some pretty entertaining and spot-on disses of Mara.

 

No. I know that's a popular theory around here, but no. Believe it or not, some (I'd hazard to even say "most") PT naysayers do have a mind of their own. I didn't like it. But I really, really wanted to. It was SW, after all. But yeah…it wasn't meant to be.

And seriously? I honestly hate people assuming all negative PT opinions are based on some Internet-hive mentality. That really, really, bothers me. That would be like me crashing these threads and saying you guys only like the movies because you're all just a bunch of blind, in-denial, Lucas apologists. Yeah, pretty annoying, right? I agree.

 

That really, really, bothers me. That would be like me crashing these threads and saying you guys only like the movies because you're all just a bunch of blind, in-denial, Lucas apologists. Yeah, pretty annoying, right? I agree
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actually very aptly put, as someone who is rather impartial to these 'debates' that is.

 

Actually, that is the very reasoning many "haters" actually use. What you fail to notice, is that the only ones who actually do behave like that are the "haters", as they, for some reason, can't stop talking about how much they dislike something. You don't see those who loved the prequels mention it all the time, you don't see people who liked or somewhat disliked the movies how they feel about them, the only ones who constantly go out of their way to mention their feelings are the "haters", who feel the need to mention not how much they think the movies suck but how it is a fact that these movies suck, regardless of whether they are actually the topic or not. As soon as it gets to Star Wars, they will throw every sort of absurd comment at the prequels or Lucas, even when the topic is something entirely different. There has never been a newsreport about a new game or the new movies where the author made a side comment about how much he liked the prequels, simply because it doesn't belong there. That is not true for the other side.

Now, if you go to a place where some people love these movies, and badmouth them all the time, you will end up with the "gushers" stepping in and defending them to the bitter end. What you won't see however, is the "gusher" go out of their way to inform everyone who doesn't want to hear about it how awesome these movies were. And that is the difference.

Not that gushers can't be annoying, but they don't feel the need to go around and tell everybody how their opinion is the only true one, they usually stick to their place. And all that has little to do with those who merely like or dislike the movies, as none of those go out of their way to tell others about what they feel about these movies and how everyone else simply has to feel the same way if he doesn't want to be wrong.

Though yes, accusing someone of just hating something because someone told you to hate it is a bit of a cheap shot. Comments like that are usually someone lashing out in return to getting attacked though. I haven't see anyone use it to start a discussion.


And yes, the legs of a movie do tell a lot about how much it is liked. Not necessarily the total gross, but the legs. No movie that isn't liked has good legs, it simply does not happen. Anybody who believes otherwise really hasn't spend a lot of time looking at the box office. A movie doesn't need to be considered a masterpiece to be liked. Most people want to be entertained, and if they are, they like the movie. Those movies can make plenty of money, without anybody going "oh, it's one of the best movies ever".
The opposite idea, however, is obviously not true. A movie won't inch closer and closer to being a masterpiece the better its legs are or the more money it makes, an increasing amount of people liking something doesn't mean that they all love it.