Casualties at Muunilist

A random thought came into my head lately: just how much did the CIS and Republic lose at Muunilist? I was just thinking, as it appeared to me that all the lancer troopers were killed--none of them came to help Obi-Wan against Durge, and none of them were seen again--and it appeared that all normal battle droids were shut down, but as not all droids needed a control signal I doubt the entire droid army was deactivated there. Also, the ARC troopers seemed to take an asswhupping--even with armour, at least half a dozen got their ribs broken at least during Durge's rampage in that control room place. And there's no disputing that something like three-quarters of the SPHATs got torn to pieces. However, presumably all the CIS gun platforms in space get destroyed--"sir, almost all the gun platforms are destroyed"--so presumably most, if not all of the Geonosian starfighters get either shot down or run out of fuel. Also, much of the Confederate front lines in the main city get a beating, but I highly doubt all the CIS forces were concentrated in that city--it'd be like occupying a country just by putting a garrison in a single town. Droid factories are also mentioned, and I didn't see anything resembling a factory in the city, so the Republic, if they wanted to take the planet and not simply level a few skyscrapers, would have to take them out, using the few ARCs they had left, or attack it in force, leading to further casualties. Multiple factories are mentioned, in fact. Also, after the battle, there would probably be still CIS pockets of resistance, who would resort to guerilla tactics, most probably. However, this is all just speculation. Apart from that, I'm still not 99.9% certain, but I think it was heavy on both sides. However, I want to know what you guys think: how much did you think the Republic lost, and what do you think happened after the official conclusion of the batlte? And can I have a decent amount of replies--please don't discriminate against me just because I'm a nobody.

 

to be fair, there is a pretty serious arguement on how many troops actually fought at Muunilist, with the estimates from a few hundred thousand to a few million. Losses were pretty heavy, but it helps to know the size of the forces involved before calculating losses.

 

I'm not sure about the casualities, but I wouldn't think there would be small pockets of CIS guerillas. Since the war was conducted with few sentient beings on the side of the CIS, I would think that the people on Muunilist probably were like "Whatever" when they were taken back by the Republic. It seems to me that there was only a small percentage of people on CIS worlds that wanted to seperate. It just so happens that the people that wanted to be part of the movement were the most powerful.

Carnage

 

Suprisingly the Muuns didnt like San Hill and his lackeys making their city a Separatists hideout... so, by logical extension there could have been an underground movement that helped out the Reps. No word on Casualties though... But does casualties mean only deaths or does it included injured?

 

That's possible. The original poster had said that there would be CIS pockets of resistence. I was suggesting to the Original poster that the people on Muunilist didn't necessarily support the CIS because it was really only to the benefit of a few of the richer folks in the Banking Clan. The average person probably didn't benefit from seperating from the Republic and probably would not have resisted the Republic after it was captured. So was essentially agreeing with what you said, except for the part with underground Republic movements.

Carnage

 

Where was this stated in the EU?

 

Actually the one with the Muuns not liking the Banking Clan's actions is canon, mentioned in one of the sourcebooks.

Muun Underground though is pure speculation.

 

That seems to be precisely how Star Wars Universe worlds are (excepting the older worlds towards the Core), with isolated settlements. Individual worlds are more like age of sail countries, if not individual with the regions (Core, Inner Rim, etc) being analogous to continents...

But yeah, I'd second that Obi-Wan's lancers were decimated. There are probably survivors (wounded/cripples/etc), but none in good enough shape to help with Durge. The droids are effectively destroyed when their command center(s) are taken and the San Hill hits the 'off' switch.

 

It'd called Muunilinst, not Muunilist.

 

The New Essential Chronology mentions "hundreds of assault ships", which is actually more than we see in the cartoon, so it's entirely possible the large numbers in the 'toon are correct.

 

Even in the Age of Sail, you could not conquer a country by taking only the capital. Moreover, at Muun we saw LAAT's deploying to multiple locations on the planet's surface early in the battle, indicating that multiple places were being attacked.

 

Even the cartoon shows well over 30 Acclamators involved in the attack, and about a dozen landed on-planet around Obi-Wan following the Battle.

 

I don't think we should treat CW visuals at face value: Mace Windu can not defeat armies of droids by punching them, or leap Several miles in a single bound. this puts a hudge damper on any conversation of numbers of troops involved in the fighting.

Even still...
"30 Acclamators involved in the attack"
Where did you get this, no more than ten, if that many, Acclamators appear onscreen at once.

 

the scene with Anakin and PAdme before Anakn goes away, on Coruscant. Season 1

Also, many of the hundreds of Acclamators crashed onto the planet behind enemy lines, and the CIS lost all droid forces on and around the planet. Republic-medium-heavy casualties. CIS-decimated, Pwn3d.

 

We don't know that all those 30 Acclamators lifting off were part of Obi-wan's task force to raid Money-Land, though. Some could have been part of another operation and were just taking off at the same time.

 

That particular episode was retconned as being one artist's representation of the battle, but this did not affect the rest of the series. Moreover, if you reject the visual evidence from the Battle of Muun then what are we supposed to accept for the purposes of this discussion? We have a quote from NEC stating that hundreds of "assault ships" were involved, their decks groaning with the weight of troops and war machines. Since "assault ship" is a colloquial name for Acclamators, they would tend to correspond with each other.

http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=23566376&brd=10003&start=23806822

Screenshots that were posted by Gross-admiral_Thrawn here show that you're wrong. There is clearly a shot of 18 Acclamators landing after the Battle. Even if you argue that the ships seen at Coruscant did not all participate at Muun, you cannot reject the visual evidence from the aftermath of the conflict as they are landing troops to mop up. Furthermore, it seems quite reasonable to suggest that the task force seen leaving Coruscant is the one that Obi-Wan commanded at Muun, and none of this precludes the possibility of even more ships that were unseen--particularly given the fact that the NEC refers to ships being forced to land behind enemy lines by groundfire (which was never seen in the cartoons).

 

From my point of view life under the CIS would be more or less the same as under the Republic. Both had corrupt leaders, both were Sith-controlled, both had armies of faceless droids/troopers that weren't very beckoning to civilians, and both had empty promises to their citizens. And anyway, perhaps there were a few particularly brave BC officials who hated the Republic and tried to coordinate some sort of resistance. But it's all speculation, so I'll admit it's not entirely plausible.

 

Assualt ships could also be referring tp gunships and those freighter-type things the ARCs used to go to Yavin IV after Anakin. 'Hundreds' of Acclamators would be carrying something like the entire clone army, and I highly doubt the Republic would pool every single clone it had into attacking just one planet. Remember, there was support from the Jedi, and anyway, from what I saw, 80% or so of the Acclamators were holed up in space, and not all could have managed to deploy their gunships due to fire from the Muun gun platforms. Also, they could have been hindered by the millions and millions of Geonosian starfighters launched, which could have done kamikaze attacks or disarmed their turbolaser batteries or shot down the gunships as they were deployed.
And another thing. Durge seemed to have decimated the front line, and had it not been for Obi-Wan he would have doubtlessly caused further damage. Without Jedi, the Republic may have still won the battle but with far greater casaulties.

 

'Hundreds' of Acclamators would be carrying something like the entire clone army, and I highly doubt the Republic would pool every single clone it had into attacking just one planet.

That only works if you accept the Clone Army only had 3 million troops. A lot of us don't.

 

If that is so, the reason would probably be partially that I would imagine that when the IGBC was nationalized, quite a few accounts full of credits were "accidentally" diverted into the Separatists' treasury.

 

At the time, the average person probably wouldn't have fared any better either way but staying with the republic meant staying with what you already were used to. Seperating from the Republic was an unknown. I'd be thinking "Would becoming independant stop trade with the Core worlds and prevent me from obtaining that one food that I really enjoyed? If trade was limited would there still be enough jobs to go around? The only people that are going to get rich off this scheme is San Hill and his friends. I wish they would just leave everything alone. Argh! Now our production of war droids was enticed an attack by the Republic. My homeworld is a battlefield! If I get my buddies together and help kill San Hill and the gang, the quicker life can go back to normal."

But of course, that is just me. I'm not a Muun and don't know what they would think.

Carnage