Catholicism

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by TrainingForUtopia, Apr 2, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. TrainingForUtopia Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2001
    star 4
    Someone in another thread suggested that a thread about Catholicism be started in the same way as the Mormonism one, as in a place to ask questions and junk about what Catholics believe.

    Personally, I think the Catholic church is tragically ironic, because Jesus was totally against putting religious traditions up in such an elevated position in the church.
  2. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    Personally, I think the Catholic church is tragically ironic, because Jesus was totally against putting religious traditions up in such an elevated position in the church.

    To quote Metallica, "You know it's sad, but true."
  3. RidingMyCarousel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 6
    Yes, but that Metallica song also is reffering to something totally entirely away from this topic.

    So why do Catholics have their "rituals" (can't think of a better name)?

    Also, do Catholics believe if someone is excommunicated that they are damned to hell? I heard that they do..
  4. R2D2-PENA Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 3
    Well i'll put my two cents in.

    1.- Catholics, as much as they deny it, put Mary before Jesus, i know that for a fact since i used to be catholic.
    2.-They Canonize whoever they wish and make a saint, i.e. Narc dealers, Assasins, etc. It Has been done here in Mexico.
    3.-The bow down to statues and adore images.
    4.-They can ban you from their church and condemn you to hell if they want (by they i mean the heads of the church)
    5.-The vatican is the smallest country in the world and the most powerful, and from this head come all the orders that run the rest of the churches around the world.
    6.-The pope is the head of the church and not Jesus. It is a known fact that Jesus is used just as a symbol but not as the "god" of the church, because the jesuits and all the leaders revise scripture as they see fit to go with their interests.

    There is more, i have a small book on the subject which is very interesting.
  5. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    Yes, but that Metallica song also is reffering to something totally entirely away from this topic.

    Don't belittle my quote! That whole song is so relevant to this topic it's not even funny.

  6. Cryptic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2002
    star 1
    Catholics, as much as they deny it, put Mary before Jesus, i know that for a fact since i used to be catholic.

    Man that's a load of sh#t. Maybe where your from people don't know about the religion. So if your trying tospeak about catholicism as a whole, then your better off speaking for yourself.


    Edit:Now that i look at your entire post, I find that it's all wrong. This is supposed to be a thread about facts. People like you are just helping to feed most of the misconceptions.
  7. R2D2-PENA Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 3
    I'm sorry Cryptic but it is true, the individual catholic might not put mary first but it is the policy of the church to hail her as the "mother of God".

    And i DO know about catholicism, my whole family used to be and 75% of the population ARE catholics, so i do have an inside knowledge of the subject.

    EDIT: Note that i was referring to the leaders of the church NOT the individuals.
  8. Cryptic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2002
    star 1
    The suicide bombers are Islamic, that doesn't mean that they actually know anything about their religion. Doesn't the islamic faith frown upon suicide?
  9. R2D2-PENA Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 3
    Islam is a whole different subject, it is irrelevant in my opinion.
  10. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    Mary was in fact not a virgin. New evidence from the dead sea scrolls actually is coming to light that throws this traditional pillar of the Catholic Church right out the proverbial window.
  11. Cryptic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2002
    star 1
    So now we are talking about opinions?
  12. Risste Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2001
    star 3
    I am a catholic.
    Lets see here...

    1.- Catholics, as much as they deny it, put Mary before Jesus, i know that for a fact since i used to be catholic.

    I do not put Mary before Jesus. Jesus is God. Mary was a woman. Period. I want to know, what Catholic tradition puts Mary before Jesus? I have never experienced this.

    2.-They Canonize whoever they wish and make a saint, i.e. Narc dealers, Assasins, etc. It Has been done here in Mexico.

    Saints are canonized in the Vatican, not in local or even national churches. Some people may call narc dealers, etc. saints, but that doesn't mean the catholic church recognizes that.

    3.-The bow down to statues and adore images.

    Bowing is totally optional, and a sincere form of respect to those who have led holy and good lives. There is nothing in the church to say I will go to Hell if I don't bow to statues. There is no part of Catholicism that sanctions the worship of images or statues, or anything other than God himself.

    To worship an image is one thing. To worship through an image is another. If I pray while looking at a crucifix, I am not acknowledging that the crucifix is God. I am simply using that symbol to focus on as representative of God's presence.

    4.-They can ban you from their church and condemn you to hell if they want (by they i mean the heads of the church)

    "Catholic" means "Universal". The doors are open, and anyone is welcome to celebrate mass. The last time anyone was forcibly kept out of a church had to be in like the 12th century, if ever. There exists no "Damning to Hell" ritual, by which any Catholic presumes to condemn another to such punishment.

    5.-The vatican is the smallest country in the world and the most powerful, and from this head come all the orders that run the rest of the churches around the world.

    Yes. I am a minion of the Vatican, and am trying to decieve all here about the true evil nature of Catholicism. I came to this forum on the word of the Pope alone, whose will guides my every movement.


    6.-The pope is the head of the church and not Jesus. It is a known fact that Jesus is used just as a symbol but not as the "god" of the church, because the jesuits and all the leaders revise scripture as they see fit to go with their interests.

    Jesus is, according to Catholic tradition the Son of God. This also means he is one part of God, in a God of three parts: Father, Son, Holy Spirit. These three make up the God of the Catholic faith. They are (or "is," in that they represent The One,) the focus of all worship in Catholic tradition. The ultimate Catholic authority lies with them, not with any pope.

    The pope is the leader of the Church in that he is the Bishop of its center, Rome. He speaks with only the authority of man, as Peter or Paul spoke. He is not worshipped.

    I have to eat dinner. The above is the system of Catholicism I have been raised in, though. My two cents.

  13. TrainingForUtopia Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2001
    star 4
    It says right in the ten commandments not to bow down to any graven images.
  14. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    Those pesky commandments!
  15. TrainingForUtopia Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2001
    star 4
    Wait, this must be the "Protestant version" of the ten commandments I have! Well, they can just brush the whole graven image thing aside then, huh? :p
  16. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    oh boy i see what this is shaping up into :p
  17. legacyAccount Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2012
    R2D2-PENA - many spanish-speaking catholics, paricularly in latin america, as well as spain, have the tradition of putting mary as a central part of the church, while the catholic church in general does not believe that. you said you're from mexico, so i'd assume that is the case where you grew up, but i would have guessed a latin-american or spanish background from your first point. the same way that the muslims who believe in suicide bombing are not representative of their religion, the catholics who put mary on a higher pedastool are not representative of their religion.


    the 10 commandments that i know are:

    "I am the Lord your God, Who has taken you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery"


    "You shall have no other gods but me"


    "You shall not take the name of your Lord in vain"


    "You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy"


    "Honor your father and mother"


    "You shall not kill"


    "You shall not commit adultery"


    "You shall not steal"


    "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor"


    "You shall not covet your neighbor's goods. You shall not covet your neighbour's house. You shall not covet your neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his bull, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbour's."

    where in there does it say that praying in the way that Risste explained was wrong?



    this shouldn't be an "attack catholics" thread. if you have a question, ask it. but don't go off spouting off reasons the catholic church is evil from what you've read out of an anti-catholic book, because chances are, it's just a bit biased.

    for example: Catholics, as much as they deny it, put Mary before Jesus, i know that for a fact since i used to be catholic.

    isn't particularly constructive. if i were to say: "Muslims, as much as they deny it, support suicide bombings. i know that for a fact, because that's what happened september 11th" people would have my head on a platter. because it's wrong. it's taking the opinions of a few people and morphing that into the ideas of an entire religion. get a clue.

    a much better way to do that would be to say "i know that mary is considered really important in the catholic religion. in fact, i've heard people say she's worshiped. what's the deal with this whole mary business anyways?" it gives us question to answer.


    get it? good.
  18. TrainingForUtopia Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2001
    star 4
    I only see nine commandments there...
  19. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    Wow. I guess there are some differences in the Ten Commandments that Catholics follow and those that protestants follow.

    Here is what I was brought up to believe in:

    Exodous 20:2-17

    'And God spoke all these words, saying:
    "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
    "You shall have no other gods before Me.
    "You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
    "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
    "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
    "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
    "You shall not murder.
    "You shall not commit adultery.
    "You shall not steal.
    "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
    "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's." '

    I learn something new everyday.

    It would seem that the Catholics practice a somewhat truncated version of the Ten Commandments.

  20. R2D2-PENA Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 3
    Well the canonization of Narcs by the catholic church HAS happened, it happened in Sinaloa Mexico, because a couple of drug dealers were very generous with the town and after they were killed the church cannonized them, IT IS A FACT.


    Also, the reason why the word "catholic" was adopted was because that church self proclimed itself the messenger of God and therefore all should be under its religious system, when
    1.- Peter was NEVER the first pope

    2.-Jesus NEVER ordained him the founder of the church (BIG fallacy)

    3.- The history of the church teaches us that if we don't follow its belief system, it will kill us, it doesnt happen now because individuals have too much power to be so ignorant and to let themselves be trampled upon. I.E. Spanish inquisition, Crusades, The dark ages existed because the church prohibited knowledge.

    4.- Who gave the church or the pope the authority to canonize and/or be the pontifice, the only pontifice (menaing bridge) is Jesus. Remember: No one comes to the father but though me.
  21. TrainingForUtopia Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2001
    star 4
    I am now pleased to bring you the complete and uncut ten commandments, from Exodus:

    20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:

    20:2 "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

    20:3 You shall have no other gods before Me.

    20:4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

    20:5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,

    20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

    20:7 "You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

    20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

    20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,

    20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.

    20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

    20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

    20:13 "You shall not murder.

    20:14 "You shall not commit adultery.

    20:15 "You shall not steal.

    20:16 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

    20:17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's."

    EDIT:

    "No one comes to the father but though me."

    Wait, I thought it was through a priest...

    :p
  22. Cryptic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2002
    star 1
  23. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    I beat you to it TFU!

    EDIT: There are some striking differences between the Christianity I practice and the Christianity prescribed in the link you provided above. I wouldn't presume to tell everyone that my beliefs are the same as most other Christian beliefs...I don't know why you choose to do so.

    Needless to say, the Catholic church doesn't do a very good job (from my limited perspective) in educating it's members on the basic knowledge of the Ten Commandments. There's quite a bit missing from that little list in the link. Quite strange.
  24. R2D2-PENA Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 3
    LOL Wylding and TFU!!!!!!
  25. TrainingForUtopia Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2001
    star 4
    The Catholic ten commandments from that web site:

    I. I am the Lord your God; you shall not have strange gods before me.

    II. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

    III. Remember to keep holy the Lord's day

    IV. Honor your father and your mother.

    V. You shall not kill.

    VI. You shall not commit adultery.

    VII. You shall not steal.

    VIII. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

    IX. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.

    X. You shall not covet you neighbor's goods.


    Hmmmm...something seems to be missing...

    And what's up with those chief commandments of the church?
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.