Catholicism

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by TrainingForUtopia, Apr 2, 2002.

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  1. Frank Slade Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 1998
    star 2
    I've tried to be polite, to indicate that if TFU wants to discuss this, the sarcasm when it comes to my religious beliefs, my relationship with God, is not appropriate. He clearly doesn't care, so how's this.

    TFU - you're arrogant and ignorant all at once on this topic. You're a 17-year old child -trust me you've got a lot to learn about a lot more than this, and you've made yourself not worth talking to.

    I'm a direct person. Deal with it.
  2. Cailina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 4
    I'm a former Catholic so I'll try my best to answer these questions. My family is Catholic and I was(still am) raised as a Catholic but my beliefs are different.

    2.- Why are the commandments different than the ones in the Bible?

    The ten commandments that I was taught to follow are the same ones which appear in my Bible. There are variations between those ten commandments and those of Protestants and various other denominations of Christianity however it is my understanding that those differences are minimal and are due to different translations. There are at least ten different versions of the bible and the translations vary in all of them. One example is that the Catholic version says "Thou shalt not kill" whereas I believe the Protestant version says "Thou shalt not murder". I used to have link to various translations of the bible but I can't find it right now. The list someone posted earlier is different than what I was taught slightly...mine had a commandment about graven images.

    3.- Why is the pope the ultimate authority of the church?

    This is because it is believed that the Pope is the heir of Peter and in the bible Jesus hands Peter the keys and says "Thou art Peter and upon this rock I shall build my church." Edit Oh yeah and Peter means rock so I'd agree that he meant Peter when he said "this rock". (Note: I'm doing this for memory if you wnat I'll look it up in the Bible later)

    4.- Why do you canonize people?

    I'm not sure about this one but I believe that it is primarily to recognize people who have led good Christian lives and whom others should follow as an example. This one is just a guess on my part...
  3. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Thank you for your thoughts, Callina :).
  4. Yodave27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2001
    star 4
    That's it, I'm done. It's like talking ot a wall. Bane, lock this, please. I find the statements thrown around in this thread offensive. Goodbye.
  5. TrainingForUtopia Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2001
    star 4
    "I've tried to be polite, to indicate that if TFU wants to discuss this, the sarcasm when it comes to my religious beliefs, my relationship with God, is not appropriate. He clearly doesn't care, so how's this."

    You're right, I really don't care, because you should learn to lighten up.

    "TFU - you're arrogant and ignorant all at once on this topic. You're a 17-year old child -trust me you've got a lot to learn about a lot more than this, and you've made yourself not worth talking to."

    My age has nothing to do with this. And I think it's sad how just because I have strong opinions that are against the Catholic church I'm automatically labeled as "ignorant" and "arrogant". You probably disagree with a lot of what I believe, but I'm not gonna start calling you names because of it. I'm sorry I'm not worth your while any more.
  6. R2D2-PENA Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 3
    Here is a verse of encouragement TFU:


    1Ti 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
  7. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    "1Ti 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity."
  8. Ariana Lang Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 1999
    star 5
    "Why do Catholic priests dress up in those weird robes and junk?"

    1) Episcopal priests wear the exact same robes. Just because your church doesn't believe in dressing up doesn't mean the rest of us have to feel the same way.

    2) You seem to be the one that needs to chill out, TFU. For crying out loud, accept that other people have slightly different beliefs than you, and move on with life. All Christians have the same basic beliefs -- the ones that apparently get you into Paradise. Who cares about the small junk. For example, if I believe in evolution and such and so believes in creationism, but we both believe that Jesus died for our sins, the fact is we're both saved, so who freaking cares who's right?!?!

    3) Not all 17 year olds are children, and as a 17 year old, I hope I'm "worth talking to"
  9. Cailina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 4
    I have a question for all the Catholics here since despite beign raised a Catholic, I never really heard what the official answer was.

    Do you believe that if a person doesn't believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then they are going to hell?

    For example, I was raised as a Catholic and have read the Bible(ironically more times than many christians I know), and I agree with a lot of what Jesus preaches. However, I have left Christianity for two reasons. The first is that I find Christianity too impersonal for me. I always got the impression from religion class that they believed there was this God out there somewhere and He always seemed very distant to me. I couldn't accept this view and consequently I was an atheist for awhile. Recently I've discovered Neo-Paganism, and the Earth-based spirtuality is a lot closer and more comforting to me. I believe that the diety that I worship is the same as the God of the Bible jsut that I'm looking at a Him/Her from a different perspective and seeing different aspects of an all encompassing, impossible to describe, genderless life...force so to speak. Anyway I try to live a good life and follow the teachings of Jesus and many other religious figures, but am I still going to hell because I haven't "accepted Jesus Christ as my personal lord and savior" and I'm not sure that he is the Son of God?(to quote a Protestant friend who does believe that I am going to hell unless I accept Jesus)
  10. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    We have Sacred Tradition as well as Sacred Scripture. They are on an equal level.

    I can accept this as your perspective. After all, my church believes in continuing revelation as being equal to Scripture. What sort of doctrinal principles are based off of the tradition as opposed to Scripture? Can you give any specific examples?

    Kimball Kinnison
  11. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    No, I don't believe that if you don't believe Christ was the Son of God, you are going to Hell just because of that. I think God will judge you according to your life and what you've done. You've doubtlessly done the best you can.

    Catholic teaching itself has changed somewhat over time on this, I think, and the current position is more or less that God will do the judging, and that no one can say what a person's fate will be.
  12. Cailina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 4
    Hey Ariana I think you're worth listening to since you've presented yourself in a kind, respectful way in every debate I've encountered you in. On the other hand I'm even younger than you so what do I know?
  13. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Examples... I'll try to think of some :).
  14. R2D2-PENA Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 3
    KnightWriter said "I can research your beliefs and general protestant beliefs and come to some reasonable conclusions. I certainly cannot speak for you personally, though."

    Like i said before it is not against the person but against the organization, and secondly you cannot research protestant beliefs because they are individualistic beliefs solely base on the Bible, and not in an organization.
  15. MoldyBread Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2000
    star 4
    As a Catholic, I belive in the concept of the trinity. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all one. If someone accepts in God, in my view, they go to heaven. Because God and Jesus are one.
  16. TrainingForUtopia Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2001
    star 4
    Why do I need to chill out? I'm the one who's getting attacked and being called names because of my beliefs and opinions.
  17. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    you cannot research protestant beliefs because they are individualistic beliefs solely base on the Bible

    Many Catholics' beliefs are individual as well. Also, protestant beliefs can often be catagorized in different belief systems, such as Baptist, Methodist and so on.
  18. Ariana Lang Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 1999
    star 5
    TFU -- because you are being condescending to those who do not believe the same as you. You are, in not so many words, claiming they are idiots for believing as they do. The point of this thread was not to debunk Catholicism. As has been discussed in many threads, it is impossible to change people's minds in an environment such as a message board.
  19. R2D2-PENA Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 3
    "Many Catholics' beliefs are individual as well. Also, protestant beliefs can often be catagorized in different belief systems, such as Baptist, Methodist and so on. "

    Like i said before it is not against you or him, or she, it is against the organization, i surely believe that if you accept Jesus as your savior you will be saved no matter the religion, but the reason why i debate this with you is the fact that you follow the organization, and i ask, why? since you disagree with many things about it, and isn't the only thing important Jesus?
  20. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I do not follow the organization. I follow Christ (or attempt to). The Catholic Church's teachings attempt to provide guidance in following Jesus Christ, through whom salvation is possible.
  21. TrainingForUtopia Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2001
    star 4
    "If someone accepts in God, in my view, they go to heaven."

    James 2:19

    Do you still think it's enough just to believe that there is one God? Well, even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror!

    (The New Living Translation)
  22. MoldyBread Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2000
    star 4
    What about muslums that aknowledge Jesus as a prophet, but also have others after him?

    They belive in the same God I do, so that means (to me), that they will go to heaven if they accept God. Same with Jewish people
  23. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I think how you lived your life matters more than just what you believe.

  24. Ariana Lang Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 1999
    star 5
    And since Jesus IS the most important thing, why not let people believe the little things and traditions that they want to? For example, do not feel at all comfortable with the Presbetaryian or Baptist churches. Not that I disagree, I just grew up in an Episcopal, and so that and Methodist are the most comfortable -- the easiest for me to express my beliefs. Who cares that it doesn't believe in the predestination like the Presbetaryians, or that the wine literally turns to blood like the Catholics?

    EDIT: "I think how you lived is more important than your beliefs" (paraphrased) -- C.S. Lewis said that asking which was more important was like asking which was blade on a pair of scissors was more important. You can't really want to live well unless you have a desire to please, and you can't really believe in God without wanting to live for Him.
  25. TrainingForUtopia Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2001
    star 4
    "What about muslums that aknowledge Jesus as a prophet, but also have others after him?"

    I don't believe in the same God as Muslims. Jesus Christ is to be elevated above all others, not on the same level as the prophets.
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