Cel/Classical Animation

Hi all,

I've been trying to figure out how to approach my next film project, and it occured to me, it might be fun to try my hand at cel-style animation. So I want to know how to go about it. I remember reading about Park Wars, and I thought it said that he drew the frames in PS and animated it in AE.

Has anybody here tried to cel animation using AE and PS, since that's what I'll probably end up using? If so, how'd it go, recommend another method?

Is Flash capable of doing high-quality animation, I mean for distribution of VHS or DVD?

Also, I can't seem to find a link to Park Wars, can anybody help me out?

-Kol.

 

Actually, I'm doing my fan film in toon-shaded (cel-rendered) 3D CGI. Not quite the same as traditional animation, short of the look...

Regardless, quit surfin' my brainwave.

 

Yeah I alerady thought of doing a cel-shaded lightwave anim, but it's not quite the same.

And I'll try to stay out of your brain.

keep the hints coming,

-Kol.

 

::bump::

 

Dang it! Now everyone's doing what I've been up! Sheesh!

 

Over the years I have come up with some ideas that I think would be better done as cel animated cartoons. There's just a certain magic you get from the fact that someone sat down for hours drawing frame by frame, and I don't feel that can be replaced by CG quite yet. You can tell when a cartoon is cel shaded and when it is hand drawn cel animation. I guess the question is, which one are you going for.

If you go for hand drawn, prepare to draw backgrounds. Also be prepared to draw 24 pictures for one second of action, and then trace those pictures on to animation cels, that you will then color and film frame by frame, by frame. Be prepared to rig up something that will allow you to face a camera down towards your thousands of pictures. Prepare to go broke from all of the transparencies you're going to buy...

If you go hand drawn with aide of a computer, you may need ALOT of hard drive space.

If you go cel shaded, prepare for buying a CG program with the apropriated neccessities, and make sure your character animation skills are up to par. It's the easy road, but not too terribly easy.

I'm no pro, nor have I personally ever done hand drawn cel animation before. No, I'm an aspiring cartoonist, not an animator. How do I know about animation? I live near a place that forks out a new cartoon every year and countless kids tv series, etc. That is Disney. Write them a nice letter, and maybe send them an stamped envelope with the sender address on it (big companies eat this stuff for breakfast ), and wait a week or so. Also, be sure to try Universal, Nickelodeon, Dreamworks, etc. You can find out alot of information on alot of stuff by going to a source of heavy animation.

I wrote a letter to the editor of a comic book (I believe it was Green Lantern) regarding what kind of paper is commonly used for drawing and they gave me the answer.
(Strathmore 10X15 inch 2-ply bristol board, in case you're wondering....pricly stuff too :/)
Come to find out, Marvel comics put this information in a book in the 80's and on their website...ah well....

-Matt


(P.S. Minor note, if you decide to write a letter, be sure to send it directly to the animation studio. You may need to do a little research, but it's worth it if they give you the apropriate information you're looking for.)

 

Actually about a month ago I tried my damnedest to figure out a way to make a cartoon with after effects. And I got nowhere. I can't find a way to kayframe curves, which is the important thing. That and how to keep areas bound by those curves filled with color. Is there a way to import illustrator files and then keyframe those lements? Or anyhting? If anybody has any thoughts I'd sure love to hear them as well.

How do they do it in Flash - and is there a way to port that method to After Effects?

 

On photoshop, you can make a seperate layer of each element you want (left foot, torso, right foot, etc...) and import it into After Effects and key frame that. I have dont this many times before and made my own mini cartoon that got deleted (long story). But anyways, it works.

 

I got some ideas about how to do it on another forum using photoshop, flash and adobe streamline.

If anyone wants to know I'll post the idea.

-Kol.

 

Hi, I'm working on a small traditional cel animation, too. Well, so far I only did a storyboard and a few clearer lines. I got Adobe Photoshop 7 and After Effects, too, and I now try no find out how to use them in order to create my short. My main problem is: Wich Software would be proper for creating the animation frames, or the cells. I mean, I need a software that supports onion skinning and a simple way to export my works to AE and PS. I know Flash has OnionSkin but I cant find a good way to transport my animations to use them in AE. I also know, that ImageReady supports a frame-by-frame way to create short animations, but it is uncomfortable in use(You'd need to create one layer for one frame, then temporarly turn their opacity down to 50% and draw your lines. Finally, you have to manually select a frame turn the visuality off on each layer wich would not be seen in the animation on that frame; I hope U get that folks, it's hard to explaine. Now think of making a 100frames-animation and having to turn off visuality on 99 layers, for 100 frames. It would be really timeconsuming and wouldn't be a fast way to work it out)

Perhaps, Darth_Jerak, what you found out about it would be very helpful and I beg you please, write your knowlegde down for us!

 

I havn't tried it, but I think Jasc Animation Shop has onion skinning. Anyone to back this up?

-Matt


(I only LOOK like an idiot )

 

Ok, guys. I'll try Jasc Animation Shop and tell you about, when I doodled around a bit.

 

OK, now here is what I figured out. JASC Animation Studio has got Onion Skin and I can use my WACOM tablet to draw some simple lines. Then I save it as a regular JASC Animation Studio file and load it into Adobe Image Ready. From there, ripped into different layers, I transport it over to Photoshop, may edit each frame, by editing the different layers. Then I go back to Image Ready(->jump to) and save the file. Finally I'm able to import the saved animation to After effects and copy it into an existing background or whatever. Transparency is given by Color Keying or by Trancparency itself. So I think this would a be a proper solution of my problem. But I'll keep my eyes open for other ways, because there is allways a better way - we don't know though

 

Hey all,

I've had a bit of a change of heart about Flash, after a bit of research.

Here's my theory:

For character animation, namely facial animation I'm drawing the basic frame in photoshop, minus color, a fairly simple line drawing. Then I'm going to load the image - in .jpg format, into adobe streamline, that converts the raster image into a vector image.

Then I take the vector imaged and import it into Flash, there I do the necessary facial animations, on a green background I think (so I can key it out).

Then I import the flash animation into After Effects where I render it as an .AVI, I then output this .AVI into a filmstrip (a series of .jpg files) and import this into photoshop. In photoshop I color the drawings and make necessary adjustments.

Then I import the filmstrip back into Adobe After Effects, key out the background, and add in a bunch of photoshop drawn layers of a cityscape or whatever (complete with moving cars and such).

I then output this into an .AVI and boom, there's my animation.

So that's my theory, I'm going to test it out in a few days, I'll post how it went.

If you see any flaws in my method, or a way to do it faster, please let me know.

-Kol.

P.S. I realize this isn't exactely classical animation, as I won't be drawing every single frame, nor will I have to onion-skin. But I believe it will look pretty close.

 

OK. I tried my way and came up with a short animation. I am not completly happy with the quality (outlines etc.) but I just tried.
Here is the link:
link

 

Hey Hermchen,

Nice animation. After looking it over, I think your method is a hell of a lot better. I'll try it out.

I saw your stuff on the Concept Design forum, very nice.

-Kol.

How long did that take you?

 

I don't know exactly, how long it took. I think it was about 1 hour, maybe a bit more. I'm looking forward to drawing a cleaner version tomorrow (perhaps other perspective, more interesting ). But now, I am tired. I'm from and in germany and here it is 1 o'clock in the morning right now. Uahhh, sleep-.. zzzzz

 

There are several cel animation software out there, some of them are now rather cheap.
For example, Toon Boom Studio
Lost Marbles
AfterFX paint can also be used to animate

 

Hey Hermchen,

You mentioned that you're using a wacom with JASC, does your animation studio support the wacom? I've been trying JASC with my tablet and there's no pressure sensitivity.

-Kol.

 

Well, that is one point, why I am still searching for a better software. No, my WACOM pressure sebsivity isn't supported by JASC Animation Studio. Argh!

 

I just tried Lost Marble's Moho, a software for 2D Animation with comic-style. I has vectorgraphics and is able to animate characters using bones like known from 3ds max or equal. In fact that isn't classic animation any more, but I think I'll use it for my next animation, because it's way more comfortable! Only thing I am sorry about is I am not able to draw "3D-movements" properly - maybe someone has an idea how to combine both ways?
Here is a small test animation showing a fish catching a (not yet existing) fly.
link(229kb)

 

That's very cool Hermchen. I think I still like the look of Jasc more.

-Kol.