1. MERRY "TALK LIKE A PIRATE" DAY! ARR!

Census Census & Games 2010 Pokemon Draft (your champion: MandaloreYak!)

Discussion in 'Archive: Census and Games' started by The Loyal Imperial, Nov 7, 2010.

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  1. The_Chim Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2001
    star 6
    Wow Yak that was quick and painless.

    Yeah doing numbers is always tough, especially for championship matches. I find myself over thinking and researching and trying just too too much. I always feel better once I get them in though!
  2. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    i really want to go flygon on this one. but since it really doesn't matter so much seeing as yak's won, i'm just gonna go gallade since i'm not up to doing all that much research on this one. teleport is still a killer, slight speed advantage or not.
  3. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    Since Kalar already seems to have voted on that one, let's move on.

    Bracket A

    The Holiday Miracles

    Bracket B

    Norman's Notorious Not so Normals (1)
    vs.
    Saffron City Psychos (5)

    And...that's it for Norman's Notorious Not so Normals. Thanks for playing, and enjoy the rest of the show.

    Now, the match you've all been waiting for. The ultimate showdown. Ragnarök. The Poképocalypse. Giovanni vs. Red. The Saffron City Psychos take on The Holiday Miracles in an epic clash that will decide the true champion of the Pokemon Draft. Fight well. Fight for victory.Championship Match

    The Holiday Miracles
    vs.
    Saffron City Psychos Location: Indigo Plateau

    Gentlemen, submit your numbers./>/>
  4. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    Championship Match

    The Holiday Miracles
    vs.
    Saffron City Psychos

    One. Location: Indigo Plateau

    Blue and Typhlosion (prepared with TM11 Sunny Day)
    vs.
    Sabrina and Alakazam (prepared with TM06 Toxic and TM17 Protect)/>
  5. Hokage_Kalar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2009
    star 4
    Does anyone think typhlosion can win more than 50%?
  6. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    i don't know. haven't looked at it yet.
  7. Hokage_Kalar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2009
    star 4
    alakazam, toxic recover protect... not in that order.
  8. The_Chim Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2001
    star 6
    Meh. I feel Typh has been really under estimated in this draft, the 'it looks bigger than it says it weighs so how can it be fast or agile?' argument about made me sick. Look at Slaking for goodness sake, it is huge and weighs way more but it's speed and agility were never questioned. Or maybe it is because of bad draws for my Typh but whatever I'm not gonna fight this one to the death just gonna throw my usual ignored opinions out there.

    Sunny Day paired with Eruption does an average 309 damage (I think my numbers were right there?) Alakazam's best move in Psychic does less than half that, even after Calm Mind it's 100 less. And Typh isn't slow only 40 odd points below Alakazam with a great Special Attack... he's in this. Kazam's telepathy and teleporting obviously is an issue but like I said ranged special attacks are a plentiful here and very damaging. The kicker again is most of these attacks I see as being waves shooting out from Typhlosion not just a beam that's a one-time shot and very dodge-able. Like the idea of Surf... only with fire I guess? Ember would throw embers out all over the battle field and the other Pokemon. I see moves like Flame Wheel being fire shot in rings all around Typhlosion and Lava Plume being massive amounts of heat and lava being spewed out all over the place, in all directions. Eruption looks like it is lava and rocks and flame shot into the air that reigns down on the opponent, gonna be tough to dodge that and heal and attack and all.

    Yak had the idea that a lot of these attacks that have a physical part to them that has to hit to effect the opponent would be influenced by a counter offensive move, like missiles hitting in the air. Toxic seems like something that's poison gas would be burned off in such extreme heat. The descriptions on Bulbapedia use the words 'smog' and 'gas' to describe the move, well like I said that is something that needs to be absorbed or breathed in to affect Typhlosion and every one of the game Pokedex entries includes something about how intense the heat from him is, how it 'burns everything to cinders'. Seems like a gas could be burned off too, something to be considered at least.

    Recover is great and all but my problem is once on defense against a offensively much stronger Pokemon how is Alakazam gonna get his hits in? If he has to be using Protect and Recover how much else is he going to have time for? Then let's say Kazam does get his hits in on Typh, with his Blaze ability, once his hp is equal or below 1/3 of it's max he is hitting for 1.5x, STAB and another 1.5x from Sunny Day. Alakazam has 314 total HP, Typh's strongest move does 309 before all that, even with Recover giving Kazam 157 of his HP back ANY of Typh's fire moves (except maybe Ember I think) will KO Alakazam. So let him try the Toxic route, that just speeds up the damage output. It doesn't do significant damage until 4-6 turns in anyway, lots of time to get hits in. AND since we get so excited about mentioning accuracy here it is 85% accurate all of Typh's stuff is coming in at 100% (except Tackle which is LOL and Rollout which are 95 and 90% respectively).

    I like the small time moves here a lot, the overlooked and ignored moves we have had around all draft but don't get mentioned a lot. Smokescreen lowers the accuracy by 1 stage. Now I don't know how that affects the accuracy calculations for the rest of the moves here but with how drastically a -/+1 damage modifier is to stats I can imagine it makes a difference. Plus it seems like something a Firebrand Pokemon would be doing a lot of. Quick Attack...'The user lunges at the foe at a speed that makes it almost invisible. It is sure to strike first[/i'...that is pretty much exactly like I envisioned that attack working. BLEACH Shadow Steps anyone? Like teleporting only with a--get this-- QUICK attack thrown in. Sunny Day, Eruption, Quick Attack is a three step combo for Typh
  9. Hokage_Kalar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2009
    star 4
    Great post Chim, very informative. Thanks for the clarifications at the end. But, I think you're lacking some of the realism involved here of what Alakazam can do. You're chaining lots of things together, and by the time Typhlosion has Sunny Day off, he has toxic in his face. It's not like Typhlosion or Blue will know that's coming, since it is a prep. After that, Alakazam could play a game of telepathic keep away. He has 4 sets of eyes, His trainers and his, both with psychic powers to "watch" typhlosions movement, and systematically run around the board and watch typhlosion die. Then with protect and recover... it's going to be too much of an uphill battle for Typhlosion. He should win some, but definitely not more than 50%. And once again, once toxic hits, it's a 6 turn match, by toxic alone, the 6th turn he only has 1/16th of his HP, by that point, anything could drop him, so it's realistically like a 5 turn match. Toxic, run around for 4 turns, and on the 5th turn attack and let the toxic finish him. Toxic is very annoying, 1/16th first turn, 2/16th 2nd, 3/16th 3rd, in 4 turns that's 10/16th from toxic alone.
  10. The_Chim Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2001
    star 6
    Great post Chim, very informative. Thanks for the clarifications at the end. But, I think you're lacking some of the realism involved here of what Alakazam can do. You're chaining lots of things together, and by the time Typhlosion has Sunny Day off, he has toxic in his face. It's not like Typhlosion or Blue will know that's coming, since it is a prep.

    Great post Kalar, very (un)informative. Thanks for ignoring my points of realism, or at least not addressing them as per your usual. I know you're lacking some of the realism involved here of what Typh can do. I addressed what you said Kazam would do and my valid counter point was not even addressed just steamrolled over, which makes me wonder how much you read arguments. So let's try this again...

    Yak had the idea that a lot of these attacks that have a physical part to them that has to hit to effect the opponent would be influenced by a counter offensive move, like missiles hitting in the air. Toxic seems like something that's poison gas would be burned off in such extreme heat. The descriptions on Bulbapedia use the words 'smog' and 'gas' to describe the move, well like I said that is something that needs to be absorbed or breathed in to affect Typhlosion and every one of the game Pokedex entries includes something about how intense the heat from him is, how it 'burns everything to cinders'. Seems like a gas could be burned off too, something to be considered at least.

    Yes I love the idea of Toxic/Teleport keep away but tell me how it is going to hit him? How is gas going to get close enough to affect Typhlosion without being burnt off? Read the Bulbapedia entries for Toxic, it isn't instantaneous and sounds very dodge-able, if you're realistic and read the description. It is placed on an area of the battlefield that can be avoided. it isn't an automatic status change, it has to be ran through or breathed in. And as for this 'not knowing because they have prep' shenanigans I have no idea what that is even about. The prep is for a move and a move only. There is no strategy making prior, no tea time for crumpets, nap time, it is only to give an extra move. I am pretty sure that was addressed in the thread, or perhaps it was in a PM I have with TLI but either way it isn't like Comics prep or any of that, just an extra move.

    EDIT For the record, Kalar I don't every post these arguments to try and convince you of anything, every match of every round I assume you've already voted against me. I just post my arguments to hope the other judges aren't tunnel visioned to your single scenario cut and dry one way landslide style. Personally I feel every match you ignore key points and add or subtract degrees of realism and game mechanics. When it favors your team or idea realism is heavily enforced, Toxic is totally turn based needed 4-5 turns to do any significant damage. How long do you expect that to take to build up? Here my idea is totally disregarded because it goes against what you posted with Toxic.
  11. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    i think i'm going to give it to typh. i'll get another post with my reasoning up later, and make it official, but i'm definitely leaning that way.
  12. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    I guess I'll put down something here.

    So, if I'm to understand this correctly, in 1 match, namely, porygon vs. tyranitar, Norman, a normal trainer used to using different types of attacks, won't be able to figure out what attack is most effective in order to use it... And Blue's cohesion with tyranitar is amazing.

    In another match, Gardevoir beats 2 pokemon without even attacking half the time and with very little cohesion with its trainer, because it can teleport and see the future. And the opposing trainer is not smart enough to know how to stop the negative effects on his own pokemon, despite the fact that the answer lies obviously in front of him.

    Yet now... With a pokemon that has 100% cohesion with its trainer, including complete thought-based communication, can teleport, can sense anything anywhere, and thinks as fast as a supercomputer with actual adaptive intelligence and an IQ over 5000, it... Loses?

    I'm just gonna look at that for awhile until I understand what's going on. You know what, maybe I am insane.
  13. The_Chim Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2001
    star 6
    Yeah when you leave out important details of those matches like ya just did there Yak it sure does sound weird how they ended up doesn't it? That and you sound a lot like someone else I know. Lot's I want to say to that quality post but I'm not getting pulled back into all that. Because clearly...

    [image=http://news.3yen.com/wp-content/images/general-akbar-trap.jpg]

    However if you would like to discuss the current match being Typlosion/Blue vs Alakzam/Sabrina I'd be delighted to face you in verbal combat once more. I';d be more than interested in hearing how your Pokemon having the ability to sense if an ant farts (after all it can sense anything anywhere right...) or how it's brain is a super computer OVER 9000 that remembers everything it does would help it fight Typhlosion. Has it faced Typlosion before?
  14. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Well, if the current match is judged with... Any consistency that can be gathered from previous matches... Trainer compatibility, teleportation, my pokemon thinking about 1 million times as fast as yours, and having a psychic link with its trainer... And your trainer not having a typhlosion... If that's judged with half the penalty Norman got, this should be easy. Especially since my pokemon actually has power and speed. And 40 less speed isn't nothing. My pokemon is a full 1.5 times as fast as yours, and thinks... Well, you ever try to outthink your computer? It thinks like a supercomputer. It'll know where the attack is gonna be before its even finished, and have a full plan for every measure that could happen from it, and a full plan of attack, instantly. And its trainer can still communicate thoughtlessly with it! Your trainer will be yelling attacks, and alakazam will know what to do, like a chessmaster 5+ moves in advance, before the attack even gets off cause it can hear...

    Yeah, I'm sorry, any thought of typhlosion winning, especially the way teleportation and trainer cohesion have been judged when not Norman, is ridiculous. There isn't any better combo of all those things than right here.

    Oh what were the important details of those matches? Gardevoir winning against 2 pokemon, with a trainer that knows 1 intimately, despite having 50% chance of truant and little trainer cohesion? Teleporting to some unfindable location? Teleporting behind 1 pokemon and blasting it? Or in the other match, a trainer not knowing what attack will work best because he hasn't worked with that specific pokemon in porygon? Kind of like, um, Blue hasn't with typhlosion? Kind of like alakazam with teleport, no truant, stronger attacks, ultimate cohesion and only 1 pokemon to fight?

    Yeah. That's about all I wanted to say. Consistency would be nice, kthx.
  15. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    ok, having thought about this more, for the sake of consistency, i really do have to go alakazam. teleporting really is kind of game breaking when you think about it, when not in the strict back and forth of the games/anime. really can't go against kazam in this instance, especially with a speed advantage (small though it might be) and kazam's super computer brain. and sabrina actually having a kazam.
  16. The_Chim Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2001
    star 6
  17. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Oh, so Chim's 40-odd points in speed weren't base stats... Oops. Don't think it matters, but may as well admit my mistakes.
  18. Hokage_Kalar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2009
    star 4
    Actually, Alakazam was played last match, if you look back you can see his prep, so your C is wrong.

    Second, thanks Trimaj for thinking clearly, and listening to arguments, and not just voting against people, because I'm incapable of that.
    Oh wait, we voted the same, again, oh...
  19. The_Chim Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2001
    star 6
    Woah brah, seriously chill out. Here I got this for ya...

    TLI edit: removed image containing profanity
  20. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    ...[image=http://kdavison.advancedwebsitebuilder.com/_files/image/dog%20hiding.jpeg]
  21. Hokage_Kalar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2009
    star 4
    You're not worth getting banned for. Of all the hypocritical things on the board, I think I've seen the worst finally, hopefully.
    You can take that form ball it up, twist it sideways, and shove it up your candy...
  22. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    [image=http://kdavison.advancedwebsitebuilder.com/_files/image/dog%20hiding.jpeg]
  23. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
  24. Shadow_of_Durron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 2, 2003
    star 6
    [image=http://arherring.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/drama-llama.jpg]
  25. Hokage_Kalar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2009
    star 4
    I miss you too shirley...
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