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JCC Cetaceans to get the same rights as Humans?....

Discussion in 'Community' started by SithLordDarthRichie, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. SithLordDarthRichie

    SithLordDarthRichie CR Emeritus: London star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Scientists at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) in Vancouver have been pushing for support of a proposed [link=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-17116882]Declaration of Rights for Cetaceans[/link]. This follows evidence compiled by scientists that suggests Dolphins especially have a level of intelligence high enough to warrent them having the same individual rights as we Humans.

    The declaration, originally agreed in May 2010, contains the statements "every individual cetacean has the right to life", "no cetacean should be held in captivity or servitude, be subject to cruel treatment, or be removed from their natural environment", and "no cetacean is the property of any state, corporation, human group or individual".

    If such a proposal as this is passed and made into law, it would mean an end to all captivity and hunting of all cetaceans. Deliberately killing one would be regarded as bad as deliberately killing a human and could even warrent similar punishments depending on the laws made.



    I personally would welcome such rights, hopefully Apes can get a similar proposal made for them.
     
  2. Whitey

    Whitey Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Paging Miana.
     
  3. LAJ_FETT

    LAJ_FETT Tech Admin and Collecting/Lucasfilm Ltd Mod star 9 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    That would be the end of Sea World. :p
     
  4. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Malleus Maleficarum star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Most other life forms deserve more rights than humans. Humans have proven ourselves to be vapid when it comes to handling freedom.
     
  5. SithLordDarthRichie

    SithLordDarthRichie CR Emeritus: London star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003
    I don't know why Apes haven't been considered for this already. Bonobos especially are considered the smartest animals other than humans, why should Cetaceans get rights ahead of them?
     
  6. Souderwan

    Souderwan Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2005

    Really? You really don't know? I find that hard to believe.
     
  7. SithLordDarthRichie

    SithLordDarthRichie CR Emeritus: London star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Most apes are smarter than cetaceans, if cetaceans are being considered based on their intelligence and self-awareness then the Great Apes are surely worthy of such recognition. Bonobos are pretty smart animals, and as we ourselves are apes we should afford them more respect.
     
  8. Souderwan

    Souderwan Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2005
    I don't think you understood my question. You're seriously telling me that you don't know why humanity has not considered apes (or cetaceans for that matter) for equal rights under the law?

     
  9. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Souderwan, people use "I have no idea why" or "I don't know why" as a turn of phrase. I'm not saying that's what Richie is necessarily doing, but you're reading WAY too much into that.
     
  10. Souderwan

    Souderwan Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Do not rain on my amusement, Sean. I asked a wry question and got a serious non-answer. I'm allowed to poke again.
     
  11. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    I aim to displease.
     
  12. Souderwan

    Souderwan Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Pooper-scooper.
     
  13. SithLordDarthRichie

    SithLordDarthRichie CR Emeritus: London star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Because they weren't considered sentient or self-aware enough to warrent status as a "person" as this new research is claiming Cetaceans now could be. But there is plenty of evidence of similar behaviour in apes as well as cetaceans.

    Morality is also important when considering rights. The article states that moral behaviour was observed in cetaceans. I have seen enough working with apes to know that they also have similar concepts with regards to morality, so if cetaceans are at some point considered to have individual rights then apes should also IMO.


    But it's not up to me, it's up to the science boffins.
     
  14. Souderwan

    Souderwan Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Be that as it may, we still have large segments of humanity enslaving fellow humans. Our very enlightened western cultures only stopped that practice in the last 150 yrs or so. Somehow I think that unless these creatures can learn how to communicate in a way that demonstrates higher-order thinking, the chances of them gaining any kind of legal status is about the same as Batman being Superman's secret boy-toy.
     
  15. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Although obviously this would be a few steps above, there is plenty precedent for animal rights/welfare legislation and legislation that bans or heavily regulates the killing and capture of certain animals (usually endangered species). That said, declaring that a nonhuman animal has a "right to life" would never fly in any country today. I think, with regards to cetaceans, it'd be better to focus on the much more realistic prospect of actually attaining a universal whaling ban.
     
  16. SithLordDarthRichie

    SithLordDarthRichie CR Emeritus: London star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Provided Japan doesn't keep bribing land-locked countries to help it oppose the ban.


    And there are theories that Dolphins are telepathic, if they communicate in a way beyond our understanding it will be very difficult to determine exactly what they do think and feel. They do seem to give themselves individual call signs which is sort of the same as names, that's a not bad start.
     
  17. darthhelinith

    darthhelinith Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 10, 2009
    They'd never give apes the same rights as us- it would mean people wouldn't be allowed to use them in animal research labs.
     
  18. SithLordDarthRichie

    SithLordDarthRichie CR Emeritus: London star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003
    They could use monkeys, they aren't at the same level as apes.
     
  19. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2004
    [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG6b3V2MNxQ]So Long and Thanks for All the Fish[/link]

    :p
     
  20. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz JC Head Admin & Community Manager star 8 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    As long as a male cetacean can't marry another male cetacean, I'm okay with this. [face_cowboy]
     
  21. Souderwan

    Souderwan Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2005
    [link=http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-february-15-2012/seaworld-of-pain]I thought of this thread[/link]. We shall overcome!
     
  22. Ostrich_Stapler

    Ostrich_Stapler Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2004
    I think the problem here is defining exactly what threshold intelligence level grants animals rights. As has been mentioned, it would be very difficult to even measure intelligence in certain species, much less declare that they have reached some minimum required for being granted rights.
     
  23. morrison85

    morrison85 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 13, 2005
    What about crows? They identified that crows actually have names for other crows and a language.

    aslso they have good logical abilities, and they can plan and they can remember people after years as well.
     
  24. Aytee-Aytee

    Aytee-Aytee Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Quite right...aren't elephants actually of the same mental capacity as dolphins?
     
  25. SithLordDarthRichie

    SithLordDarthRichie CR Emeritus: London star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Apes, Cetaceans & Elephants have been the subject of rights battles for many years. This new claim seems to have more evidence to back it up which may or may not be an important factor in it actually being seriously considered.

    Defining whether they should have rights is largely based on whether they have the concept of individuality & morality. Those are things associated with humans and are generally the basis of granting us the fundamental rights that we have.
    If other species are found to posses those traits either we alter what defines getting rights or we give them similar rights to our own.

    Being able to build houses and do physics or other such things unique to humans are not what is required to constitute having rights. It's not being smart, it's being aware.