JCC Cetaceans to get the same rights as Humans?....

Discussion in 'Community' started by SithLordDarthRichie, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    Scientists at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) in Vancouver have been pushing for support of a proposed Declaration of Rights for Cetaceans. This follows evidence compiled by scientists that suggests Dolphins especially have a level of intelligence high enough to warrent them having the same individual rights as we Humans.

    The declaration, originally agreed in May 2010, contains the statements "every individual cetacean has the right to life", "no cetacean should be held in captivity or servitude, be subject to cruel treatment, or be removed from their natural environment", and "no cetacean is the property of any state, corporation, human group or individual".

    If such a proposal as this is passed and made into law, it would mean an end to all captivity and hunting of all cetaceans. Deliberately killing one would be regarded as bad as deliberately killing a human and could even warrent similar punishments depending on the laws made.



    I personally would welcome such rights, hopefully Apes can get a similar proposal made for them.
  2. Whitey Force Ghost

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  3. LAJ_FETT Tech Admin and Collecting/Games Mod

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    That would be the end of Sea World. :p
  4. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    Most other life forms deserve more rights than humans. Humans have proven ourselves to be vapid when it comes to handling freedom.
  5. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    I don't know why Apes haven't been considered for this already. Bonobos especially are considered the smartest animals other than humans, why should Cetaceans get rights ahead of them?
  6. Souderwan Chosen One

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    Really? You really don't know? I find that hard to believe.
  7. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    Most apes are smarter than cetaceans, if cetaceans are being considered based on their intelligence and self-awareness then the Great Apes are surely worthy of such recognition. Bonobos are pretty smart animals, and as we ourselves are apes we should afford them more respect.
  8. Souderwan Chosen One

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    I don't think you understood my question. You're seriously telling me that you don't know why humanity has not considered apes (or cetaceans for that matter) for equal rights under the law?

  9. Lord Vivec Chosen One

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    Souderwan, people use "I have no idea why" or "I don't know why" as a turn of phrase. I'm not saying that's what Richie is necessarily doing, but you're reading WAY too much into that.
  10. Souderwan Chosen One

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    Do not rain on my amusement, Sean. I asked a wry question and got a serious non-answer. I'm allowed to poke again.
  11. Lord Vivec Chosen One

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  12. Souderwan Chosen One

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  13. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    Because they weren't considered sentient or self-aware enough to warrent status as a "person" as this new research is claiming Cetaceans now could be. But there is plenty of evidence of similar behaviour in apes as well as cetaceans.

    Morality is also important when considering rights. The article states that moral behaviour was observed in cetaceans. I have seen enough working with apes to know that they also have similar concepts with regards to morality, so if cetaceans are at some point considered to have individual rights then apes should also IMO.


    But it's not up to me, it's up to the science boffins.
  14. Souderwan Chosen One

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    Be that as it may, we still have large segments of humanity enslaving fellow humans. Our very enlightened western cultures only stopped that practice in the last 150 yrs or so. Somehow I think that unless these creatures can learn how to communicate in a way that demonstrates higher-order thinking, the chances of them gaining any kind of legal status is about the same as Batman being Superman's secret boy-toy.
  15. Darth Guy Chosen One

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    Although obviously this would be a few steps above, there is plenty precedent for animal rights/welfare legislation and legislation that bans or heavily regulates the killing and capture of certain animals (usually endangered species). That said, declaring that a nonhuman animal has a "right to life" would never fly in any country today. I think, with regards to cetaceans, it'd be better to focus on the much more realistic prospect of actually attaining a universal whaling ban.
  16. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    Provided Japan doesn't keep bribing land-locked countries to help it oppose the ban.


    And there are theories that Dolphins are telepathic, if they communicate in a way beyond our understanding it will be very difficult to determine exactly what they do think and feel. They do seem to give themselves individual call signs which is sort of the same as names, that's a not bad start.
  17. darthhelinith Force Ghost

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    They'd never give apes the same rights as us- it would mean people wouldn't be allowed to use them in animal research labs.
  18. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    They could use monkeys, they aren't at the same level as apes.
  19. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

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  20. JoinTheSchwarz Comms Admin & Community Manager

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    As long as a male cetacean can't marry another male cetacean, I'm okay with this. [face_cowboy]
  21. Souderwan Chosen One

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  22. Ostrich_Stapler Force Ghost

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    I think the problem here is defining exactly what threshold intelligence level grants animals rights. As has been mentioned, it would be very difficult to even measure intelligence in certain species, much less declare that they have reached some minimum required for being granted rights.
  23. morrison85 Force Ghost

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    What about crows? They identified that crows actually have names for other crows and a language.

    aslso they have good logical abilities, and they can plan and they can remember people after years as well.
  24. Aytee-Aytee Force Ghost

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    Quite right...aren't elephants actually of the same mental capacity as dolphins?
  25. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    Apes, Cetaceans & Elephants have been the subject of rights battles for many years. This new claim seems to have more evidence to back it up which may or may not be an important factor in it actually being seriously considered.

    Defining whether they should have rights is largely based on whether they have the concept of individuality & morality. Those are things associated with humans and are generally the basis of granting us the fundamental rights that we have.
    If other species are found to posses those traits either we alter what defines getting rights or we give them similar rights to our own.

    Being able to build houses and do physics or other such things unique to humans are not what is required to constitute having rights. It's not being smart, it's being aware.