ST CGI in The Force Awakens

I think they did a great job with the CGI involving Maz & Snoke.

 

It's possible that over ten years of development in technology and computing speed that it may look newer and not as dated...yes.

 

It's silly because they acted like they were going to use technology that pre-dated ROJ. It was a selling point that said "yeah, CG was a reason why those last three stunk, but we're gonna do it right". That production still was just one example of many uses of CG and blue screen. If anything I thought the movie more resembled the prequels because it's a recent movie like any other. That part of it I enjoyed. I hated things like the Steelpecker because it was done just to do it, not unlike some prequel things which were done because they could be done. If it was my movie I would have cut the Steelpecker. At the end of the day it's a movie with a budget and time constraints, you do what can be done within reason to make it look as good as possible.

 

That's not much of an argument is it? I don't expect you to agree, it's just my opinion, but "no it's not more visually interesting or imaginative" doesn't really articulate a contrary position. But regardless, let's just say you haven't convinced me otherwise and I stand by my original point i.e. TFA's visual effects were very good, but I thought the action/set pieces they underpinned, were bland and were lacking creativity/originality.

 

Epic. Fail.

 

They really look quite good on blu ray. There are subtleties that show much better when it is a radiated, crisp image. They work well on large screen TV as well as 24" monitor. The meticulous motion capture and subsequent development shows.

 

I'm going to assume that you wrote this post in a hyperbolic frenzy, and ignore most of it. In fact, I'm going to agree with you, for the most part.

ROTJ has some of the worst practical effects, and aesthetic choices, of the OT. It's my least favorite of the OT for that, and many other, reasons. So by "an exception," I am referring to sections of ROTJ being an exception to the OT rule. I also find the ROTJ speeder-bike chase to generally look fake (though it's certainly fun).

ANH and TESB, on the other hand, look much better. There's very little in those films that strikes me as cartoonish.

And apart from Otoh Gunga, and the ground battle, TPM looks fantastic. As do some key sequences in AOTC, and a few scenes in ROTS. I just disagree that there's an equivalent level of cartoonishness in the PT and OT.

In general, the issue I have is tangibility vs. intangibility. Matter of taste, and nothing more.

 

The speederbike chase in ROTJ is hands down better than the entirety of TFA... from concept, design to implementation (IMO).

 

Practical wins again!

 

I love the speeder bike chase and I agree it's more original in terms of concept (and therefore design) than the sequences in TFA. I'm not sure how its "implementation" unless one is baiting. I'll leave out the "entirety of TFA" part because that clearly
is baiting.

 

Next up: that shot of Worrt in ROTJ vs. the entire oeuvre of J.J. Abrams.

 

Oddly enough I like the reactor shot shown above. But I think the problem with Jedi is that they used techniques that they didn't use in the first 2 and it stands out a mile. I'm referring to shots like the journey to the Sarlacc on the skiff where Han and Luke are talking, Lando and Han in front of the Falcon, the close ups of the speeder chase. These effects haven't held up over time. But these kind of shots are, effects wise, forerunners to some of the digital environments the actors performed in on the prequels. Where I think in particular in AOTC is where we saw some more 'cartoonish' looking effects, like the diner for example. Practical wise in Jedi some of the suits, especially the Ewoks, leave something to desired. Compare that to TFA and the practical aliens I thought looked excellent. But everything is very much of its time, I don't remember as a kid thinking the effects of ROTJ looking bad, its just time and technology has moved on so we expect different things these days. Even in the short time since the prequels technology has moved on again. But the important thing for me is if they take me out of the film and become a distraction.

The CGI of the TFA is as you'd expect. top notch. Arguably Snoke was the weakest, maybe that could be put down to the fact he was a hologram. But I'm looking forward to seeing how they portray him 'in the flesh' effects wise and how he looks in the next films.

The only other CGI that I felt fell a little flat were the Rathtars. I felt they looked like something from Men in Black, so whilst the effects were good I think it was more the design of those I didn't like.

 

Sorry, but the edit time ran out on my last post. One other thing I wanted to add was that one of the things with special effects is not how its used in regards to spacehips and battles and shots in space or approaching planets, because Star Wars has had that nailed for a long time, even going back to the OT. But its how effects are used in regards to what the actors are acting in and what they are acting to. In that regard TFA I thought was excellent.

 

Yes, I think TFA blended the array of its various tools brilliantly. Whether that blend was used in the service of concepts and designs one feels are unique or original enough feels like a separate debate, although I suppose scope may play into certain choices. I agree that ROTJ has a couple of dodgy mattes beyond the obvious hangar one (and to be fair, pre-SE ESB had that dodgy Cloud city matte). I disagree all Jabba brings is pt vs x film/trilogy. That's some of it sure, but far from all of it - and he brings a lot to the boards IMO, though he should stay the Hell out of the cave

 

You're right, there is nothing really to be said for the crux of your argument (though I don't think you're being honest). However, your appraisal of Rebels as being superior in either creativity or originality is questionable and that's what I was addressing. You've simply picked an awful example and I don't think you really remember the action scenes very well to be saying such things. For instance, in either season of Rebels there's no sequence of the Ghost moving at any kind of dynamic speed and movement, or in as interesting and unique an environment, as the Falcon chase from TFA. The ship scenes in the show are its weakest element, though I realise that probably serves your agenda for a more scathing indictment of TFA.

 

Yeah, I loved it!

It was nothing like I've seen before when I was a kid when watching it.

 

The speeder bike chase is phenomenal. Without doubt one of the standout sequences in the saga.

 

You don't know what the term implementation means now?

 

Agreed... the standout element of TFA, if not its greatest achievement, is the Falcon's dynamic speed and movement. I've personally never seen the Falcon being chased by a Tie fighters before, nor the Falcon flying through the superstructure of another spacecraft.

 

Yes, thanks. I just don't buy your stance on the implementation aspect for a second.

 

Then what makes the battle of Yavin 'better' than the battle of SKB? What makes the truck chase in Raiders 'better' than the jungle chase in Kingdom of the Crystal skull if not how concepts/ideas get implemented and transposed onto the screen?

 

The speeder bike chase is an amazing effect, absolutely. Personally, though, I don't feel that it's aged as well as the Hoth battle from ESB, the trench run from ANH, or the Jabba effects from ROTJ. It's better than those matte paintings on Bespin, but there's something about that speederbike chase that just looks...off to me in this day and age, shockingly unlike almost all of the other effects from the original trilogy.

God, I love that that's almost the worst thing I can say about the Original Trilogy. If only it could pass the Bechdel test.


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Originality, pacing, their place within the overall story, music, all of which are great but not really that relevant to this thread.

But you didn't start comparing the speeder bike chase to those sequences - had you done so before you attempted to shift the goalposts, debate would have been more fruitful.

Instead you compared it to the "implementation" of the entirety of TFA, which seems needlessly hyperbolic (hence my baiting comment) and could only lead me to infer you were taking about its implementation in terms of FX, which given your general stance on practical vs VFX in general doesn't seem to match up to me.

 

Um, yes you have... Return of the Jedi... Both things happen.

 

He's being sarcastic.