CT Changes to the Original Trilogy

He doesn't have to accept your opinion: he has to tolerate it. Like you tolerate a bad cold, or a crying child in a restaurant.

 

I accept other opinions. I accept them in the sense of accepting that they exist and someone's not a buffoon for not agreeing with me

 

Ok, people, play nicely. There are ways of disagreeing (strongly) with others' opinions while still respecting them and not getting personal. Try and observe them.

 

I agree that the new wampa looks better than the old one, but that does not make for a better film. We could add beautiful CGI visuals of the shark in the early scenes of Jaws, but that would only kill the suspense. It was the unseen monster that made Jaws scary, and I feel the same way about the wampa.

 

Seagoat I think even the most open minded and accepting of people would think that replacing Yoda in the OT with CGI is a step too far

 

I'm not most : )
To each her own of course

 

What this thread shows is how divided people are and the many different opinions on the additions.

Great post, arguably none of the changes made for the special editions onwards made them better films.

 

Tidying up matte lines and transparencies aside, the only change I think of as a genuine improvement was opening up the corridors of Cloud City. It fit, it matched, it looked like it was meant to be that way, and it looked heaps better.

Did it make ESB a 'better' film? Probably not - if they hadn't done it, I doubt anyone would be whingeing about how bland the interiors of Cloud City looked. Either way, it's the only addition that I think was 100% successful.

Everything else, IMHO, ranged from amusing novelty, to distracting and unnecessary, to utterly infuriating.

 

Totally agree that some of the changes improve them a lot visually. But the changes don't make them better stories and neither do they heighten the enjoyment of watching them.

The cynic in me can't make my mind up if the changes made for the 97 special editions were done to give them an excuse to release them again as a way of gaining momentum for the PT or if they were genuine changes they had always wanted to make.

 

A little from column A, a little from Column B...

The 1997 SE's were originally something of a 'trial run' for the PT, along with simply restoring and fixing a few things in the OT for a theatrical release in advance of the PT, but they seemed to get a bit carried away. In fact, it was originally announced that only SW/ANH would be getting the 'Special Edition' treatment, ESB & ROTJ would be only restored and tidied up.

As early as 1977, GL was saying that he wasn't completely happy with the film as released, plus there's a few little revelations in the latest Rinzler book on ROTJ which indicate that the galaxy-wide celebration at the end, plus blinking Ewoks, were ideas they wanted to do back in 1981/1982.

I completely understand and sympathise with the desire to streamline the Saga so the disparity between two series of films made decades apart isn't too jarring, but so many of the changes just weren't necessary. Mos Eisley post-1997 probably looks closer to what GL originally envisioned, much closer to the Mos Espa of the PT, but they couldn't do it in 1976 - so we ended up with a location that looks like some dusty, desert ****hole in the middle of nowhere that just happens to have a space port. Exactly the sort of place one might think criminals would find themselves, and which the likes of Obi-Wan Kenobi would describe as a "wretched hive of scum and villainy".

It worked. Leave it alone.

 

Having had the privilege of watching ANH on the big screen recently, I have to say that those Mos Eisley additions were the changes that bothered me most. Having been almost instantly immersed in the GFFA from the opening crawl, those CGI additions jarred me out of it just as quickly. Yes, in theory the new version of the space port is more in line with the original vision, but it is just so out of line with the movie that was originally created.

 

CGI will never look goon on 1970's film. It just wasn't made for it.

 

For me that part is maybe not so much it's there, it's how it was done. All the slapstick comedy etc is just annoying, and not needed. Widening the scope would have been fine, it just needed to be more subtle (not a word GL is familar with)

And having been to the shooting location of the original Mos Eisley arrival, I just find it a little sad that it's been 'enhanced'

 

The CGI on the original is very jarring, and I like I said in another post why just do bits instead of sweeping through the entire film to make it all CGI. It makes the film look exactly like it is, made up of half modern and half 20 years old , a mismatch of effects.

 

There is no acceptable changes. Movies are made by many people, with many limitations and then released to the public where they become public works of art. You only get one shot. If you wanna fuff around with some changes for an anniversary or special edition then fantastic but it is the height of unprecedented artist's arrogance to claim this version as replacing the original work and making it so by refusing access to it.

 

Slapstick stupidity aside the CG for the Mos Eisley intro looks absolutely terrible in the cold light of the 21st century, so basically now the comparison is between a 1970s movie with 1970s special effects or a 1970s movie with jarringly out of place mid 1990s special effects (and slapstick stupidity which to be fair I said we were leaving aside but I really can't).

In the finest Qui Gon tradition, the ability to elucidate an idea or opinion doesn't actually give it any worth.

 

Just in case you missed it yesterday.

 

Well, not quite. I could go either way myself. Now, that having been said, if Lucas had wanted to include a shot of Luke training with Yoda via Lightsabers, then a stunt double and a CGI Yoda would work in that regard.

Though you're only judging it based on the decade in which the film was made and the changes added. Just because the technology didn't exist in 76-77, doesn't mean that it couldn't work when inserted in.

 

I'm going to enter the fray!

Here's my take. I don't have a problem with GL altering the O-O-T in any way as long as the original trilogy is available. (I may not agree with every change, but I don't begrudge him that right and I wouldn't criticize him as filmmaker for making the change.) I think the main question then is -- does the DVD version of the original trilogy that GL made available constitute an adequate version of the O-O-T? To me, the answer is "pretty much, but not entirely." DVD's look very good on blu-ray players, and it is a pretty high expectation that GL should go to the expense of making a new, cleaned-up version of the OT for every new generation of format -- blu-ray, 4K, etc. -- especially difficult in fact because I believe he altered the original negative when making the SE.

Here's a way to articulate my view more precisely. Imagine that 3-D HD became the standard instead of the novelty that it is now. What I mean is that virtually everyone buying new TVs bought 3-D HDs and that all content was available in 3-D HD, and so, it became the broad consensus the 3-D HD was superior to regular HD. Would that mean that GL would have an artistic or moral obligation to the release the OT in 3-D? Or if GL chose to release the special edition in 3-D HD, would that mean that GL only then would have an obligation to also release the O-O-T in 3-D HD?

Some would counter that unlike 3-D vs. 2-D, 4K is clearly superior than blu-ray because it simply has a higher number of pixels, so basically, more equals better. However, 3-D offers an extra dimension that was not available on a regular 2-D TV, so again, it seems like the "more equals better" argument would still apply. Also, the higher resolution and clarity of blu-ray often makes matte-lines visible, and the extra detail of high resolution sometimes make special effects look more fake, so you could even argue that older formats have advantages too.

I would also add that even if the O-O-O-T is not available in any form, I still wouldn't have any problem with GL releasing versions of the OT altered in the following ways: improved sound, improved picture/color quality, eliminated matte lines, obviously fake special effects replaced with photo-realistic special effects, special effects improved to match GL's vision which couldn't be accomplished at the time (more exciting X-wing vs TIE fighter movements, fake Cloud City replaced with CGI Cloud City), the re-introduction of deleted of scenes (especially if they were not included simply because of special effects limitations--Jabba ANH, Luke with his lightsaber in ROTJ).

There are really only 2 areas I strongly fault GL when it comes to alterations: changing the actual content or tone of the film (Han shooting first, the silly antics in Mos Eisley) and not bringing the altered special effects up to 2011 levels (the blu-ray Jabba is a huge improvement over the SE Jabba, but why not bring sarlaac or the Mos Eisley improvements up to date? The blu-ray is supposed to be the saga in its definitive form, so it seems almost cheap and lazy not to.)

What's funny is that I thought that GL had added that frog creature, the one that snaps up an insect with his tongue, outside of Jabba's palace as part of the SE, and I thought, "Why did GL add that dumb thing?" Then, I realized that that critter has always been there! (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) I think sometimes it's as much our expectations about a film as the film or the changes to the film itself. For me, the addition of the dug doesn't bug me, but I guess for someone who has seen the films 50 - 100 times, maybe those things would stick out more.

I would also add that not altering some things can be distracting. The original hover effect for Luke's landspeeder and the sometimes whitish hue of the ANH's lightsabers among many other flaws of the original ANH can be very distracting and these types of things almost demand a special effects improvement.

I actually don't totally disagree with Seagoat's suggestion. I'm certainly not saying that puppet Yoda should be replaced in every shot or even most shots in the OT, mostly because puppet Yoda looks really good in most shots and awesome in a few (like when he's sitting on the log after Luke leaves for the cave) and actually, I'm not saying he should be replaced in any shot, but just that I would be okay with it if he were replaced in a few of the shots where he looks most fake. Now, I'm saying this with a lot a caveats. The match going from a puppet Yoda shot to a CGI Yoda shot and back again would have to be perfect (and I don't think that could be accomplished now). I also wouldn't have a problem if they altered his eyes in a few shots (again, only if the change looked photo-realistic). There are a few close-ups of Yoda where he doesn't seem to be looking in the right place and his eye movements just don't look natural (he almost looks cross-eyed in one), and some where his eyes even look a little strange, sort of like he has cataracts (maybe that's his old age!). Also, in ROTJ, when he's dying, the way his left ear bends as he lies down doesn't look natural. I find those types of things distracting and I wouldn't mind if those things were changed -- only as long as they could achieve those changes in a photo-realistic way with a perfect match, which again I should add that I don't think they could achieve that yet, but as a hypothetical, I would be okay with changing OT Yoda as long as it's done in the fashion I've just described.

 

To each their own of course, but if TESB puppet Yoda was replaced with CG I would cry. I would seriously, literally cry.

 

I really like the enhancements in ANH, in fact i think GL stopped short with that film as he could've jazzed up the Obi-Wan - Vader duel. The Jabba scene, the scene where the Falcon flies out of Mos Eisley and the increase in X-Wings really enriched the film for me.

In ESB the Vader - shuttle scene doesn't really add anything, the Emperor's new hologram made sense and Boba/Jango's voice was plain stupid.

For ROTJ, i wish they'd started the film with Luke finishing his new lightsaber. It would've given Luke much more clarity when dealing with Jabba, yes he was freeing Han but ultimately he was going to have to deal with Vader sooner or later.

 

Well, I think I'm not saying what I mean clear enough. What I mean is that if we got the point where the technology was good enough, I wouldn't have a problem with them replacing the few shots where puppet Yoda looks fake with a CGI-version of "puppet Yoda."

Sometimes the lighting, the movement his eyes, or the movement of his mouth make it clear that it's just a puppet. So, what I'm suggesting is that in those few scenes where Yoda doesn't look right, they replace him with an exact CGI-replica, except with more natural mouth movement, eye movement, etc. (or possibly leave the puppet as is, but CGI improve mouth and eye movement). I don't think they have the technology to make a perfect CGI-replica of Yoda puppet right now or alter his mouth and eye movement in this way, and I don't know if they ever will be able to do that, but I'm just saying that I would okay if they could improve the shots where Yoda looks fake with a perfect CGI-Yoda copy.

 

I knew what you meant ladnar, and fair enough. I was just being melodramatic.

But I would still cry...

 

A remake would be great.
But just because of the resoltion.
I think the rest is just great for the time that was made.

 

Why is Boba's voice stupid? He's a clone of Jango, so he should have the same voice. After all, all the Clone troopers had the same voice.

As for ROTJ, Luke building his lightsaber is fine, but none of that "LUUUUKKKEEE!!!! LUUUKKKKKEEEEE!!! JOIN THE DARK SIDE!!! IT IS THE ONLY WAY!!!!" crap. I can see why that scene was deleted. If people thought Vader seemed weak in ROTJ, then that made him basically a defenseless youngling.