CT Changes to the OT you wouldn't have noticed if not told

Agree to disagree I guess. By rough around the edges I mean the effects. I don't mind how bad they are. Feels more real if they aren't fixed. Just feels cheap adding stuff in years later. Probably in the minority though. The movies are perfect to me. I'd rather have my own opinions on the movies, then follow the crowd. They have everything I want. I'm going to college for a history degree since I like history. Watching the original movies to see how the whole SW experience began. Not having that starting point limits the historical impact of SW imo. I will watch the 04 DVD's to see how things have changed but will always prefer the original. Haven't seen the BluRay version yet in their entirety. So they weren't supposed to be made in the 70's. Well they were. I'm not throwing them out just because Lucas said so. Everyone has to see the original movies at least once. How can you get the full SW experience if you only see the most recent version? You are going to have to stop putting out new editions eventually. With CGI improving yearly what's to say that there won't be more versions with more changes. Enough is enough at some point.

 

Some people are simply never satisfied with their own work, and I'm damn certain that George is one of them.
I compare it to my father. His entire life has been spent lifting weights, yet no matter how strong and well built he gets, he's never pleased with himself as a bodybuilder
Likewise, George must feel that, no matter how much he adjusts SW to suit his vision at the moment, he just won't be satisfied. Probably because his vision keeps changing....

 

A bodybuilder not being satisfied makes sense imo. Eventually someone will come along that is stronger than you.
His vision changing is the problem! The first time and thing I see is my definitive version. You are going to have to do something insanely awesome to change my mind. I know Lucas has his own perceptions of things (which are completely different from mine) but his jumps of logic concerning Han shooting Greedo, the Krayt Dragon yell etc are baffling to me. How can you just change things (that don't seem that important to me to change) willy nilly like he does?

 

I sense a minor case of OCD

 

Maybe just a bit.

 

Personally, I don't share the view that the "director's intention" is some kind of sacred and untouchable thing which must be upheld at all costs.

A film, more than most works of art that I can think of, is a collaborative process. The film which is produced is a composite of factors of time, place and personnel. A by-product of a thousand different elements in combination. Some of these factors are things that could be done and sometimes they're things that couldn't. Whatever the intention of the director may have been, a film is, for better or worse, what it is at the time of its release. Sometimes the things which the director wasn't able to achieve will be the most popular elements of the film. The things which give it its distinct identity. Greatness by accident if you will. That creation of a certain time and place should, in my very humble opinion, be honoured out of respect for all of those who contributed to its being. Not just the director. In Star Wars' case, there are many great artists who fit this description.

As I've mentioned more than a couple of times recently, I was lucky enough to see ANH on the big screen again recently. What a joy it was. From the opening scene I was transfixed and transported to the distinct environment that is the GFFA. Now I know that Lucas talks often of his intended 'used universe' but for me, it's more than just dents and dirt on the Falcon which creates this distinct setting. It's a sparseness. A sense of desolation and, pardon the pun, space, which exists. Now in my humble opinion, had Lucas been able to give full effect to his vision, the film would have to a large extent lacked that distinctive quality, which contributed to its success. One only has to look at the SE additions to the Mos Eisley Space Port to see what it would've looked like had he had the means at his disposal during original filming. On my recent viewing, I was abruptly jarred out of time and place when these elements leapt off the screen at me. Talk about shattering the mood! As for Jabba's cameo in the film, I think solo77 summed it up pretty well!

 

Well said MOC Yak Face!

 

What?! Someone agrees with me!? We'll I never

 

That seems like a bit of an extreme reaction, though. It's just CGI. It's not even bad CGI. It's actually quite good; probably the best that could be produced at the time.

Why, though? It's just a matter of opinion. There's no magical quality about a release date that confers a sheen of unimpeachable quality on a film. It is what it is, and if it's changed, it is what it is again.

And I don't see how Lucas making changes in any way devalues the hard work of all his collaborators. They knew what they were in for when they signed on. Lucas was in charge, Lucas made the decisions. Nothing got in the movie without his say so. They probably had a lot of ideas that Lucas shot down. Those ideas disappeared forever, and were seen by no one, no matter how great they might have been. It's the same principle with the new editions, only in this case at least people got to see their work before Lucas shot it down.

 

It's a lot worse than the complete absence of CGI that was there originally.

I would submit that it isn't. It's now something else. And that's the whole point. It's not as simple as 'this new effect is better than that one was, so if I add it in it's the same movie, but better'. That's a very simplistic view of what makes a film what it is holistically. It ignores crucial elements such as atmosphere, mood and actors' chemistry. Adding a whole lot of new CGI effects or arbitrarily substituting one actor for another in a scene can completely change the tone of that scene and therefore the whole film. At that point, it's another film.

Nothing got in the films without Lucas' say so, but what about the ideas or creativity that the others produced independently of Lucas, which he thought were great and included them, but removed later completely of his own volition? These elements were part of a collaboration of people, ideas and technology which produced the film as it appeared in theatres upon its release. When any one element in this collaboration is significantly altered, the unity of the whole thing is compromised.

 

Well, yes, I think we've established that CGI is the devil. Where do we go from there?

And I would submit that it is not "something else." Like everything, it's about matters of degree. I find it ironic that you describe my view as simplistic, when you're the one not allowing for shades of grey. Everything is black and white. If it's not the exact movie that was originally released, in every single way, then it's not as good as the original--in fact, it's a completely different, now-terrible movie.

I know very well that atmosphere, mood, and actors' chemistry are important elements in a movie. My question to you is, why is it that all these elements can only come together perfectly at the exact moment of the movie's original release date? Was there some sort of once-in-a-millennium planetary alignment occurring in the heavens when Star Wars was released in 1977? Seriously, is there some sort of literal magic going on that I was unaware of? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying.

Elements that the actors were completely unaware of at the time were added into the original releases as well. Mark Hamill couldn't hear Frank Oz reading his lines. Dave Prowse didn't know he was telling Luke he was his father. All the actors participated in various scenes in front of blue screens which were to be replaced with god-knows-what kind of backgrounds during post production. What Lucas did to the updated editions wasn't some unprecedented thing. Why is that when that kind of thing happened during production it was okay, and in fact contributed to the sacred, perfect, inviolable nature of the films--but when it happened post-release it was suddenly the biggest sin imaginable for a filmmaker?

I don't think you're understanding. Lucas already unilaterally vetoed things from the films, before they were released. It was his decision; he could take other people's ideas into account, but ultimately he didn't have to listen to them. If he wanted something in the film, it went in the film. If he didn't want something in the film, it didn't go in the film. He was completely in charge, and whatever consideration he gave to other people's wishes, he did so at his own pleasure.

I don't see how this situation is any different than the situation when he was updating the movies. He still had producers. He still had special effects workers. He still had various people he worked with and who presumably gave him some form of input. But it was still his final decision. I don't see how it matters if it was twenty years later. It doesn't matter if it was largely a different group of people who were working on the film. I'm sure people came and went during different stages of the original production, but that didn't mean the movie somehow lost some part of its innate essence.

If you don't like the updates, you don't like the updates. But it's not because some fuzzy, undefinable Fundamental Law of Holistic Filmmaking was violated, or something.

 

I don't recall ever claiming that he had to listen to anyone or that he wasn't (until recently) perfectly free to do as he pleased with his films. But it's not a question of could, it's a question of should.

Come on now The_Phantom_Calamari , there's no need to be sarcastic and put words in my mouth. Just because I don't like a particular CGI inclusion doesn't mean I'm against it completely. It's an amazing development in film making and highly effective, when used with discretion.

Once again, there really is no need for sarcasm. You do possess a rare gift for hyperbole though. I'll grant you that. Regarding magic ... only magic of the movie making kind.

Regarding my views on the updates. Some of them I like, some of them I don't. But my own view on them is irrelevant in the context of this discussion. Whoever owns the SW films can tinker with them til their heart's content as far as I'm concerned. Replace Harrison Ford with CGI Kurt Russell if that's what floats their boat. All I'm saying really, and apologies to WhiskeyGold for this derailment, is that the original versions of the films should have the same status as the updates and that the people who brought them into being, should be given due respect.

I hope in due course whoever has the power to do so, does so.

 

I've always only owned the Special Editions, so the only times I've seen the 'originals' or whatever was during my early fandom, and all I really remember are the Special Editions

 

There are some shots that were zoomed in so to speak. Like in TESB, a wide shot of everyone in the cockpit was made to be a little closer, that kind of thing. I wouldn't have noticed those. I never thought anything of matte lines around snowspeeders. I don't think I would have noticed the lengthened detention area hallway. I'm rather perceptive and I'd seen the movies a lot by 1997. I definitely would have noticed sounds. What gets me are the shots that are still "imperfect" that weren't touched at all.

 

The dialogue and image corrections went under my radar. Strangely, I felt like the Wampa scenes were always there... the power of suggestion in the original must've had an influence on me (I was a kid when the special editions came out, I didn't pay mind to the changes in the marketing). On the other hand, I was actually disappointed when I didn't see the Oola in the Rancor pit scene when my family actually got the set on tape (previously, I was mainly watching the rented Special Edition).

 

Wow, I was about to get all worked up about Lucas cutting the 'I can see a lot better' line but then realised it's the other way around. That's actually a nice change I think. When Han says it you don't believe him, but **** it, he's doing it anyway.

 

Like a lot of people, its mainly just the switch ups of dialog that I never noticed. Though to be fair I have only seen the unaltered versions once, so I probably would't notice some things.

 

Apart from the replacement of 'Bring my shuttle', I didn't really notice any of the dialogue only changes - if I did, I probably figured I remembered the original lines from the books or comics, so they weren't disruptive.

 

No changes bothered me at all tho I did prefer this line:

You can tell he's pissed!

 

Honestly I can say I don't have a preference when it comes to that line

True, he does sound pissed with simply, "Bring my shuttle," and that does fit, but I feel the replacement also fits. It shows a different side of Vader: he's calm because he knows Luke's made it out ok, and he knows that his plan can still work, no need to freak out or panic.

 

Never saw the original line as Vader "freaking out" or "panicking", instead it's succinct and authoritative. The changed line is simply ponderous.

 

I didn't say that he was panicked or freaking out

 

Yes you did.

 

No, I'm afraid you've misread me. I said that the new line reflects the simple fact that he was not freaking out. I never compared that aspect (losing calmness) to the original line

 

Replacing "Bring my shuttle" didn't just add a new line (that was out of tone) but added that whole unnecessary sequence of shots showing Vader fly to the Star Destroyer.