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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Senate Cheating on a significant other or spouse

Discussion in 'Community' started by blubeast1237, Jun 30, 2014.

  1. SithSense

    SithSense Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2002

    the night that santa claus comes to town.
     
  2. Souderwan

    Souderwan Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Nope. Not really. :p
     
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  3. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    well ****...
     
    Souderwan likes this.
  4. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999

    They're sharing a **** they call loneliness. But it's better than ******* alone.
     
  5. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Thanks, Jabbadabbado, for giving me another good excuse to use in the future. Instead of just "But... bonobos have sex with everyone! They're our closest living relatives because the multitude of species more closely related to us are all extinct !" I can say "Honey, my balls are big. Like, HUGE. Makes gorillas jealous. Would you stay committed? Have some sympathy."
     
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  6. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    sure is john edwards in here
     
  7. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    blubeast1237 brah, if i can do it you can. i live in phoenix goddamn arizona, the metro area with the largest populations of mormons outside of utah, anti-gay legislation like sb1062 (which thankfully got vetoed at the last minute), and more megachurches than you can shake a stick at. i dont consider myself formally "polyamorous", but for the last couple years, since the end of my last major relationship (4 years, and i managed not to cheat this time :p ) ive been living functionally polyamorously. its called "dating".

    i see women here and there, sometimes concurrently, but they always know about my feelings, philosophies, and other entanglements in full. my general rule is that i dont kiss someone or ask them out on a date or something date-ish (one-on-one stuff, "hey, you should come out to x" isnt a date) until they're aware of my situation (and any other women im actively dating and/or having sex with). i dont find myself having to police myself with this rule, tho, because if you're being honest and not hiding things from the person, those details usually come out in the kind of long conversations you have with a person you're beginning to connect with romantically, (or maybe that's just how i roll, ive always been more open and talkative than i think a lot of guys are). even if you only want to see one person at a time or you dont date enough for it to become a problem, honesty about your intentions is key. it may seem callous to be like "hey you're cool and i like spending time with you and i wanna holla atchu sometime but at some point im probably totes gonna be audi" or even "hey i dunno what i want long term but i like whatever we're doing so lets do more of it for now and see what happens?" but the fact is that if you are honest about what you want it'll save a lot of heartache and misunderstanding and you'll feel a lot more unencumbered than if you hadnt been honest. and that honesty is a lot more likely to gain you respect (at least from romantic partners and potential partners) than a negative reputation. people who have a negative reputation in their peer community for "sleeping around" are usually often misleading or dishonest to the people they sleep with, in my experience

    the key issue is that you shouldnt make OR EVEN HINT AT a formal commitment that you cant keep. i started living this way because when i got out of my last relationship i was pretty sure i wasnt going to stay in arizona much longer (still working on that, but im getting closer to escape, lol) and i was a bit burned out in general as well. i didnt want to commit to anything serious for a while. there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you're not lying to yourself and/or others about it. when you commit to someone and then fail that commitment, that's where the real problems come in, so if you know you cant fulfill the commitment, dont make one. i tell everyone i become romantically involved with, as early as it is appropriate to do so, that im uninterested in making a serious commitment, certainly not before i have moved away from arizona and achieved certain other academic/career-oriented life milestones. usually by the time it comes to telling them explicitely, they already know, because i havent been hiding it. nobody wants to be "that guy" -- and for women i know misogyny and the myth of the "slut" makes it even harder to be open about flexibility in your sexual or romantic pursuits in a way that doesnt turn people off -- but i think it is possible, with tact, to be honest about your intentions without being typecast as slutty or "the polyamorous weirdo" or whatever (this is part of the reason i prefer not to identify as "poly", honestly).

    ive actually coincidentally started hanging out with a lot of people who flat-out identify as "poly" and have like a whole poly community and everything. the gist of it is that i acquired a taste for blues dance while i was living in tucson, and the nascent blues dancing scene in phoenix so far happens to be largely composed of members of the poly community. this seems to be because the biggest event organizers for blues dancing in phoenix are polyamorous people, and they've naturally managed to rope their friends into it. im not convinced formal polyamory is for me, but i recognize the similarities (and differences) of their lifestyle and how ive been living since the end of my last major relationship

    for the last few years that ive been nominally single, i find i usually have, at any given time, what ive been calling, half-seriously, a "primary". this means that although im flirting and dating and generally not acting monogamous, i have one person who i spend the most time with and have the most comprehensive intimacy with, though both of us are free to pursue others and have no long-term commitment to each other. one of my primaries from a while back jokingly referred to me as her "favorite" to denote this connection. after a few months of this informal condition of "primaryness", when circumstances change, (one of us wants to pursue someone else more seriously, one of us moves away, etc) this "primary" association ends and im more conventionally "single" for a while. so far, ive been fortunate in not "hurting" anyone (as far as i know) in these arrangements, and i am still on good terms with all the women i have been involved with over these last years. im not sure how long this trend will continue, and its not something i divised on purpose. it just seems to be a natural consequence of dating frequently and eliminating the possibility of a long-term commitment from the start

    i dont know a lot about polyamory, but i should ask my poly friends for more information about their experiences with it, certainly before i find myself ready for a serious relationship again, so that i can decide if my next serious relationship should be "polyamorous" or not. im not sure at this point if it will be traditionally monogamous or not, but i know ill have a lot of great experience with communication from these last couple years of being "single"
     
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  8. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    LOL. "I like them that way. Easier target for the heel of my boot."

    I think that's what Merlin got tagged over here for.
     
  9. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Sure, but the fundamental test of a whether you actually love a partner is if you love them more than you love yourself. If you cheat and don't leave them, then you're reaffirming a pecking order that puts you and your needs firmly ahead of them.

    I get the reasons are complicated; hell, I cheated once when I was living overseas and my partner was back in Australia. Phenomenally selfish of me, but that's kind of my point.

    Sorry man, you didn't get the memo where it was revealed your Catholic morals have been declared obsolete! :(
     
  10. GenAntilles

    GenAntilles Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Cheating is only wrong if you do it and feel wrong, if you do it and see no problem then it's perfectly moral for you. If your partner feels hurt or disagrees it is their issue and perhaps ending the relationship with them is for the best, then you can find someone who likewise does not see a problem with cheating. Or if you only enjoy cheating because of the deceit and pain it brings your partner staying with your partner would be the best option for you.

    If you and your partner value fidelity then cheating would likely not be seen as fine by either of you. But ultimately cheating is only wrong if the person cheating feels it's wrong, they are the only ones who can decide whether or not it is. Their partner has no control over the others body and should not get upset at their partner's use of it.

    That said if there is a contract stipulating cheating is not allowed then breaking the contract could be seen as morally wrong, unless the one breaking it has a medical or psychological excuse for needing to cheat, in which case the other partner is at a moral fault for causing physical or psychological harm to their partner by forbidding them from cheating.

    Ultimately 'cheating' itself is an antiquated term from an antiquated world.
     
  11. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Yeah, definitely John Edwards.
     
  12. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Nothing renders a judgement of antiquation valid quite like naïve egoism.
     
  13. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Is lying to and betraying someone bad?
    Yes.
    Is it justifiable/understandable under certain circumstances?
    Sure.
    But still bad?
    Yes.
     
  14. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Darth Guy's post about his huge balls about killed me. :p
     
  15. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    GenAntilles that's subjective morality nonsense. "Right for you" vs "right for me" isn't how things work. Two people can disagree on the morality of something, but one of them is wrong.
     
  16. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    That was some delicious irony there, Vivec.
     
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  17. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    missed this, but that's okay, we'll come back to it: actually, gibbons are serially monogamous as a rule -- you know, like most humans seem to be by inclination. even then, gibbons are lesser apes -- the main thing they appear to have in common with humans and the other great apes as opposed to monkeys is that they dont have a tail. indeed, the only primates that typically mate for life -- the specific kind of monogamy people (certainly religious people like yourself) usually mean by "monogamous" -- are short lived new world monkies like the golden lion tamarin, and even then there are documented exceptions. on the evolutionary evidence, monogamy for life appears less "mystery" and more ideology at best, or a deluded myth at worst
     
  18. NotSoScruffyLooking

    NotSoScruffyLooking Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2009
    I think you have a moral obligation to be honest in your relationship with someone. If you have a large sexual appetite and your partner knows this, then either they are okay with it and you have an open relationship, they are not okay with it and you don't cheat, or if they are not okay with it and you cheat anyway, I think that's morally wrong. People have a right to be in an honest and happy relationship, and if you can't provide that you should not be in the relationship.
     
  19. GenAntilles

    GenAntilles Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Who are you to decide for others what is right or wrong? If they feel cheating is perfectly moral then it is for them. If you don't feel it is moral then it's not moral for you.
     
  20. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002

    its not even "subjective morality", since there's no hint of concern for social/systematic context. or, you know, "others". like Ramza said, its bizarrely naive egoism
     
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  21. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    The gaping hole in your moral framework is that cheating is necessarily an event that happens in relation to other people. Even some of the most viciously selfish and morally bankrupt philosophies at least imagine to acknowledge that our actions have an impact on others. The most common dictums about freedom likewise concede that whatever limitations exist arise insofar as they impinge on the lives of others.

    Would you apply this logic elsewhere? Is it alright to stab people if that's what you enjoy? To rob from them? If we have literally never have any obligation to consider the feelings or well-being of our fellow man (or the general society), then where and why does this sort of thing stop?
     
  22. Souderwan

    Souderwan Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2005

    Don't get personal.
     
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  23. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    When we discuss the morality of behavior we should assess the level of difficulty. The person who never has an opportunity to be unfaithful to a significant other can't lay claim to much personal virtue. But like our goalie in the U.S.-Belgium game, the individual who avoids infidelity in 13 out of 14 attempts is performing very well under extremely challenging circumstances. And I think many spouses caught up in these situations tend to take this into account when assessing whether their Lebensabschnittspartner is never to be trusted again.
     
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  24. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    I'm not "deciding" what's right or wrong. Right or Wrong are objective. Anyone applying the correct reasoning arrives at the correct right or wrong.
     
  25. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    I feel like GenAntilles has neither cheated nor been cheated on.