Choreography Competition 2.5

I believe your definition of "choreography" is mixed with your interpretation of what qualifies as a good film.

Choreography is movement representing dance, and being a previous competitive dancer I know that when the judges mark for choreography directly they do not judge for a climax. ( Climax is usually marked in a dance competition, but it is not directly related to the choreography.) And as I do realize that this is not a dance competition, but a "choreography" competition, I feel that the parallels are quite evident.

Because film #7 tries to pick up on plot development, etc., the lack of a climax is extremely evident, however this does not in any way affect the choreography.

Check the definition:
"1 : the art of symbolically representing dancing
2 a : the composition and arrangement of dances especially for ballet
b : a composition created by this art
3 : something resembling choreography "

(Definition cited from www.m-w.com)


With all this being said, I am only trying to say that there is no way that the lack of a climax could affect the choreography, which from what I understand is what the competition is being judged on.

 

I'm with Sabia... it's Choreography...

For all we know, #7 could be a cut from a longer film... Where in there is far more to lead up to climax... What made it stand out was the change in environments... the changing of opponents... the multiple opponents...

10 was good... but it was effective enough (IMHO)... and the hand to hand needed some better angles to make it look better... It looks like it's the choice because of the special effects... no the choreography...

Keep in mind... I still think 10 is good... I just think there was more work and planning put into the Choreography of #7...

 

sweetheart don't talk to me about a definition of choreography because I know (with my years of dance experience I think I would know )

All choreographed pieces need a good climax. Please tell me that with dance experience you dont know that because I need a good laugh. Look at famous dances, musicals, fights, ect. ALL of them have their "big moments" (a.k.a THE CLIMAX) to leave with the audience. Make them all go "wow". Ya, know to make it MEMORABLE.

Choreography needs excitment to get the audiences attention.

Any idiot can tap his foot to a song but that doesn't make it great choreography.

 

Am I the only one that has seen A New Hope?

Obi and Darth fight. Obi dies. They escape. Then there's 20 minutes of nothing until the Death Star explosion.

This is an unfinished film, everyone knows that.

Why would I spoil something great?

(And ask Justin, he knows at least ONE thing I have planned for the finished end )

 

I'm saying your scene lacks Climax. If your going to submit something, give it a little kick.


all you do is hide behind the phrase [Whiney Luke] "but its not finished yet" *sniffle* [/Whiney Luke]
If you are going to submit it...give it a little kick. Sure your whole thing may be filled with great story and climax. But where is that relevent here?

 

DISCLAIMER: This is not an attack against Film #7 but an observation by a filmmaker/enthusiast.

Further more the opinions expressed here are based on technical merrit NOT personal opinions of the people themselves. I appologize if this is misleading.

Choreography being any pre-arranged set of movements, whether it be dance of combat, while in the context of film is still subject to the "rules" of film. A video being one that focuses on Choreography would depend often on choreography as its plot. The fights are essentially what is going on to put it simply. And most plots need to be held by a sort of formula or structure. That structure would suggest that there is a build up of action and intensity in editing, visuals and music towards a climax and finally a resolution. Now as I have stated before this is a rule, like many others, that can be broken. But the rule must be understood first. In the case of film number 7 it appears that they were attempting to be different and play with the structure without understanding how first.

You must walk before you can run.

Audiences have a predetermined notion of structure of a film. They subconciously know how a film should work. There should be an intro, build up, climax and conclusion. The climax would of course be the highest moment of tension. Film 7 has intro, clima, build up, conclusion (this ruins the intensity). When the action intensifies like near the beginning, as it does in film #7, we the audience are left thinking one of two things:
1) This is the climax and the video is almost over or
2) There is something more intense to come.

The fact that things progressed after that, suggests that more is to come. But the intensity dies down. This structuring is anticlimactic since the end comes sooner then later. Had you cut the thing after Justin killed Tessa then it certainly would have been structured more appropriately. (It appears to me that you handed in not the final edit but the rough cut, finely trimmed)

And there is nothing wrong with playing with the structuring, if and when you know how. There is nothing here to indicate such a knowledge or understanding.

Again part of choreography, in the battling sense is to thrill the audience. The purpose of any video of a fictitious nature is to entertain. Choreography is still subject to this idea. The entertainment comes from the combat and how impressive it is. And having spectacular moves is wonderful, but they must follow structure and form.

A Choreography video is still subject to the guidelines and formulas of film. For example, editing, costumes, effects and music. While the choreography is not dependent upon these things they are most definately affected by them. If it was strictly combating each other, thats important, then the other elements would not be included. It all comes down quite frankly to the effectiveness of the film.

Obi and Darth fight. Obi dies. They escape. Then there's 20 minutes of nothing until the Death Star explosion.

Obi Wan's duel was not the climax of a New Hope. It was the motivation for Luke later, and a plot point that allows a noble warrior to allow the last hope of the galaxy to escape. Again you are allowed to have moments like this but to have them as your climax and to continue with the video after words leaves the audience wanting more and not having that delivered. Had you extended the battle with Mitch at the end and made that the most intense portion it would follow the appropriate structure.

The actual climax of A New Hope was the Trench run. Having intense moments early in the movie are fine, but not if that is the peak of intensity.

And a note, there is not much point to playing with the structure too much in a five minute short. There is generally little room for creativity. The Ben death works because its a two hour movie so having multiple elements of intensity is generally aloud by an audience. In a five minute movies its heavily misleading.

Think about how much worse Phantom Menace ha

 

Ok, there's been enough arguing for tonight. I think everyone got what you meant, TMNT. I'm sure Entry 7's team will take it into account when they reshoot and re-edit.

 

Excuse me TMNT? I don't appreciate being talked down to.

You aren't an expert, so don't try to pull yourself off as such. I'm not saying that I am an expert so don't go calling me on that.

I've stated my points previously on the choreography issue and they seem to be quite clear. The reason for this post is to tell you that you should be more aware of your lack of respect for those on the boards who are just trying to have a decent conversation.

 

Yeah, time to lay off for now... This is not the place to have this type of discussion. Please take it to PM's.

Sage H.

 

Excuse me TMNT? I don't appreciate being talked down to.

You aren't an expert, so don't try to pull yourself off as such. I'm not saying that I am an expert so don't go calling me on that.

I've stated my points previously on the choreography issue and they seem to be quite clear. The reason for this post is to tell you that you should be more aware of your lack of respect for those on the boards who are just trying to have a decent conversation.




Hey Pot...this is Kettle....you're black!


You think you can just merely state that you know how these things work as if i am some low life nobody and then give me the definition of Choreography like I am some idiot. Don't give me your condescending crap and then cry wolf.

 

I would just like to state for the record on the debate that there is a difference between "choreography" and "form." To create an entertaining final product, both must be present to some extent.

Choreography is the story of the fight - the sequence of events, the timing, and the pauses built into the fight. That is why 100+ repeated saber blows from left to right isn't good choreography.

Form dictates the speed an precision with which the moves are done. If form is lacking, moves aren't convincing, and it all falls apart.

Intensity however, is usually a product of direction, sound, cinematography and ACTING.

I'm waiting until tomorrow to post detailed reviews. But I should like to say now that entry 10 has the most intensity, while entry 7 CONTAINS the best form - in the person of Plurimus, though his skill isnt matched by anyone in entry 7 or any other fight in this competition.

-Spiff

 

Choreography is the story of the fight

And what is story without structure?

 

What/who is Plurimus?

 

Ok I want to make something clear with my post. Some people beleive that I have issues with the Director of film #7.

I want to be clear on 2 points:
1) what I posted is in NO WAY based on my opinion of the person but rather my opinon of his work.
2) I hold nothing against him in any way despite what some may beleive.

I am capable of having a discussion with someone, even a heated one where we seem to be angry if not resentful towards each other. Most recently I had a discussion with Dorkman Scott who most definately put me in my place, in a conversation I now admit was better argued on his behalf. And at the time I was angry. But I can say with absolute certainty that I have no resentment towards Mr. Scott and I still respect what he has to say. I am capable of discussing without hating...on the flip side Iwhat I discuss is not in anyway shaped by personal opinion of that person.

At least on my behalf I have no resentment towards Mitch in anyway. I want to make that very clear. Others who beleive otherwise are mistaken. I currently hold no resentments towards anyone on these boards.

 

Well... in order for #7 aka Not a Forest aka The Movie with a Sith Witch but no Shower Scene to have been better presented as a film would be to have the trio of Sith Acolytes surround the Jedi and we fade to black and throw on a To Be Continued.

I was fully expecting for that to happen. It would have been cool since you'd also have folks eagerly anticipating the full final version. With better timing Spiff would have done the same with the Planet with no Name release, i.e. show off the River Duel then release the rest of the flick later.

 

WRT names - sorry... got the two mixed up for some reason. I meant Primrodo - a.k.a. Mr. Monk, not Plurimus, local author and choreography critic.

Duh.

I have a tendancy to get names wrong

-Spiff

 

all you do is hide behind the phrase [Whiney Luke] "but its not finished yet" *sniffle* [/Whiney Luke]
If you are going to submit it...give it a little kick. Sure your whole thing may be filled with great story and climax. But where is that relevent here?

It is unfinished. They submitted what they have in a rough edit, and they're still going to re-shoot. My guess is that, for production and post production, it's 50-60% completed.

Covax: Actually, that probably would have been better if it faded when the three sithlings came out. But now that this one has already been submitted... we'll have this one to wait for the complete one with.

 

We're currently waiting on the Judge's write-ups. You guys know who you are. If you haven't PMed either myself or Sage your reviews, PM us with them ASAP.




-Brandon

 

Has the poll been closed yet?

M. Scott

 

It closed yesterday, as I understand it.

 

Wow... that's it?... very anti-climatic...

 

::trumpet fanfare plays::

Just waiting on the judges votes, and then I assume there will be the final results, encouraging a whole new raging debate.

-Spiff

 

Exactly.

Should be any time now. Last I heard just a judge or two needed to get their thoughts back to Brndon/Sage for posting and then away we go.

 

Had some technical problems, but the poll is now closed. However, only votes up to the deadline will count.

 

1 vote for one entry, and 3 votes for the other; I'm happy . I wasn't sure if I'd get any.

Will we get to see the judges reviews?