Senate Christianity Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by Jabba-wocky, Aug 1, 2013.

  1. timmoishere Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    That passage from Isaiah describes the Earth as a circle. Guess what? The earth is a sphere (actually closer to an ellipsoid). Science 1, Isaiah 0.

    Again, how does the Bible provide proof about dinosaurs? Where in the Bible does it say that humans and dinosaurs lived alongside each other?

    And since the Omo I and II remains have been reliably dated to 195000 years old, plus or minus 5000, your assertion that the Earth is only 6000 years old is wrong.

    Remember, in order for data to be scientifically sound, it must be unbiased, it must be falsifiable, and it must be repeatable. There has been no reliable data supporting your young earth hypothesis.
    Last edited by timmoishere, Aug 5, 2013
  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 8
    Wait a minute--you just used a verse from Isaiah, a verse from the Bible, to prove the reliability of the Bible?

    LOL wut?

    Who is Austin Cline and what are his credentials?

    Interesting that you ignored my question about whether this Safarti person had been published in any accredited journals. Generally speaking when one works for a university or any sort of bona fide research foundation, regular publication is a requirement.
  3. timmoishere Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Using the Bible to prove the Bible is such a ludicrous concept. Allow me to demonstrate:
    [IMG]
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  4. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    He'll bring up the Leviathan, you know he will.
  5. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 8
  6. timmoishere Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    I'll admit that I could have been wrong about the Austin Cline article I linked to a few pages ago. I just found that page via a quick Google search for "Biblical contradictions," and I didn't have the time to peruse the page entirely. But I'm sure a more thorough examination of Google will turn up a number of contradictions in the Bible, both internally, and when it contradicts with the known sciences of the world.

    Here's a pretty good list of contradictions to check out. A couple highlights:

    I and my father are one.
    - John 10:30
    ... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
    - John 14:28

    God is not a man, that he should lie: neither the son of man,
    that he should repent.

    - Numbers 23:19
    And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his
    people.

    - Exodus 32:14

    I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
    - Genesis 32:30
    No man hath seen God at any time.
    - John 1:18

    ... for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger
    forever.

    - Jeremiah 3:12
    Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever.
    - Jeremiah 17:4

    Last edited by timmoishere, Aug 5, 2013
  7. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    Why not change it up. Your trying to prove the Earth is millions of years old using scientific knowledge of Earth.

    Use space time instead.
    Last edited by DarthMane2, Aug 5, 2013
  8. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    Linking to one fringe scientist is supposed to convince anyone? How about linking to mainstream science? How about the vast majority of scientists who agree that evolution is a better answer? But no, let's go with this one guy on creation.com.

    Bones don't rot and disappear; the flesh and meat does. It's the bones that fossilize over millions of years. You have a complete misunderstanding of fossilization.

    Do some learning: http://www.oum.ox.ac.uk/thezone/fossils/intro/form.htm

    That's because you don't reply with scientific sources. You're as bad as I used to be years ago. "I have provided all the proof I'm going to provide." You've provided NOTHING. Nothing at all. A link to creation.com to a discredited pseudoscientist here and there will not cut it.

    You sit here and complain that your terrible links won't convince us, but you have to look in the mirror. The ENTIRE VOLUME of scientific evidence, put together by millions of people, won't convince you of basic science. The same methods that give the science that allows you to sit in front of a computer and type on the internet are what tell us of evolution and fossils.
  9. JoinTheSchwarz Comms Admin & Community Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2002
    star 8
    Why is the sky blue, Vivec?
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  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 8
    Because God loves the UNC Tarheels.

    [/college ball reference that a few Arena folks should get]
    Lowbacca_1977 likes this.
  11. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4

    LT!

    [IMG]
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  12. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    To me, anyone that believes that the earth is 6000 years because the Bible says so even though all the evidence points to the earth being 4.5 billion years old is clearly a follower of the great deciever, Satan. Who else would create everything in such a way as to mislead people so thoroughly?

    Also, this Onion article seems relevant
    Last edited by Lowbacca_1977, Aug 5, 2013
  13. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 8
    [face_rofl]

    I'm glad I'm not drinking anything because it would be all over my iPad screen right now.
  14. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2011
    star 4
    Science that is, yet again, conducted by a FLAWED and imperfect humanity that can make mistakes. We don't know everything and never will.

    I and my father are one.
    - John 10:30
    ... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
    - John 14:28

    God is not a man, that he should lie: neither the son of man,
    that he should repent.
    - Numbers 23:19
    And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his
    people.
    - Exodus 32:14

    I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
    - Genesis 32:30
    No man hath seen God at any time.
    - John 1:18

    ... for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger
    forever.
    - Jeremiah 3:12
    Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever.
    - Jeremiah 17:4

    1. Jesus and the Father are both God and on equal standing with each other; Jesus has God's authority. At the same time, we have the Trinity: Father, Son, Spirit. Jesus is equal with God the Father as the only begotten Son.

    2. Again, context. The Exodus verse comes right in the middle of the Golden Calf debacle. Only Moses' pleading changed the Lord's mind about destroying the Israelites. The Numbers verse appears in the context of Balak hiring Balaam to curse Israel, but Balaam blesses them instead, and tells Balak he can only speak what God tells him to speak. Balak's hope that God could be persuaded to curse Israel didn't work.

    3. In Jacob's encounter, he wrestled with God in the form of a Man. Neither he, nor anyone else, in the OT, saw God in His full unveiled glory.

    4. Read the verses and the surrounding sections yourself. 3:12 is in the context of Israel and Judah's unfaithfulness; God calls "backsliding Israel more righteous than treacherous Judah", but He says if they will return to worship of Him, His wrath will not fall on them. 17:4 deals with Judah alone: because they have consistently refused to acknowledge their sins and repent He will give them over to the nations and scatter them to the winds.


    Try again, @timmoishere.
    Last edited by Skywalker8921, Aug 5, 2013
  15. Zapdos Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2013
    star 5
    Are we going around in circles or is it just me?
    Last edited by Zapdos, Aug 5, 2013
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  16. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    God of the Baby GAP.
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  17. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 8
    Why do you keep trying to win an argument against someone who believes the Bible is as real as Star Wars (or less real than Star Wars) by using Bible verses to prove that the Bible is real?

    Your repetitions that science is conducted by humans is not a winning argument when you are debating people who do not believe that the Bible was written by God.

    We know science experiments were conducted by humans. So the hell what? Unlike the notion that the Bible was written by God, scientific abstracts can actually be proven with evidence outside the journal they are published in.

    Warren Henry was a real dude though. He was killed at the Battle of Midway. The book War and Remembrance told me. You don't believe me? Check the book War and Remembrance.

    Try again indeed.

    @Zapdos, I may need to take something for vertigo soon.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Aug 5, 2013
    Zapdos likes this.
  18. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2011
    star 4
    @anakinfansince1983, if you've read my Senate post yet, do you still maintain it's impossible for Quirinius to have conducted a census before Herod died?
  19. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 8
    You've gotten me confused with someone else. I never said that was impossible. I don't have a problem with the Bible's basic timeline of events, any more than I have a problem with Wouk's timeline of World War II events. Doesn't mean that I think the story itself is nonfiction though.
  20. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    Compared to a bible that was written, compiled, edited, transcribed, and translated by an imperfect humanity that can make mistakes. We don't know what the original version was and never will.

    The difference is, science can be tested and independently verified.
  21. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2011
    star 4
    Fictional once again is the claim that these two events could have overlapped, what with Herod having died in 4 BC and the census having taken place in 6 AD.

    From this, it appears to me you seem to think that Luke is claiming that the census of Quirinius and Herod's death overlap and therefore he is in error, and I've been trying to explain that there are actually two different censuses in view here. Do you get it now?
  22. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2011
    star 4

    Humans that wrote down the words as God told them to write it. The editors and translators have made mistakes over the centuries, yes, but the original authors (Moses, Isaiah, Matthew, Luke, Mark, Paul, ect.) DID NOT.
  23. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Moses did not write the books that are traditionally attributed to him. I'm not sure if the text even claims they were. They were oral tradition for centuries (well, and stories from other religions) before being written down. Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John also did not write the Gospels and the names really weren't meant to imply that they were the authors (apocryphal gospels include the Gospel of Mary, for example). Luke and Matthew use Mark as a source as well as a hypothetical "lost" Gospel. John, the most gnostic-like text, was written as late as the year 100 CE.
    Last edited by Darth Guy, Aug 5, 2013
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  24. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2011
    star 4
    John was still iving around 95 - 100 CE, (he wrote Revelation, which was his last book), so your argument on that front is blown. The Books of the Law are repeatedly referred to as the "Law of Moses", so your claim that Moses didn't write them doesn't hold. Besides, Exodus through Deuteronomy are primarily concerned with Moses' life. If the Gospels weren't written by those authors, then you tell me why they're referred to as the Gospel of Matthew, Gospel of Mark, ect, hmm?
    Last edited by Skywalker8921, Aug 5, 2013
  25. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    First of all, prove that. There's not a way to independently verify those statements. And more to the point, why don't you include Muhammad and Joseph Smith in that list? What about Judith, included by Protestants but not Catholics? Or Esdras, included by Eastern Orthodox, but not by Protestants and Catholics? Or the Gospel of Thomas, not included in any?

    Well, Harry Potter is referred to as Harry Potter even though that's not who wrote it. That's not exactly proof there.
    Last edited by Lowbacca_1977, Aug 5, 2013
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