Senate Christianity Discussion Thread

Correction: I meant six month baby in the womb. I will edit.

God is loving, but also just. You cannot love if there is no respect. If a people turns against God and becomes hostile towards everything he stands for and hate him (they are without love towards him). Love does not condone. If there is no measure of justice, then there can be no love. If there is no punishment for evil, then everything is acceptable and love dies, because respect for property and person dies, and thus chaos is born.

 

oh okay im not sure why you distinguished that from a fetus then. medically that's a fetus

 

What if the destruction is the consequence? If a people decide to defy God and not love him, and they do acts that give them disease and they are whipped out by disease, is not God exempt? He warned them, he said "Thou Shalt not," and they did not listen. Was it not love to warn them? Its not his fault they disobeyed and did what killed them. As for God completely eradicating a people, he is the only one who could do it with impunity. If he is God he is the judge and he can read hearts, minds, souls, and spirits. He has the right to decide, because he is God. Frankly, I am baffled at how anyone can call God to account if he is God? How can a creation that is so much lower in intellect, power, and everything else judge the Creator? If A.I. really does rise and Machines develop a consciousness do you believe they should judge us when they have no morality, except what is programmed in them? In the case of this last piece of my argument we are God to the machines because we created them and programmed them. I am putting God's shoes on our feet.

 

so if i love my dog but i feel it doesnt respect me, i should kill it and give its bone to my other dog that does respect me?

 

How is it that the JCC noob christians are able to say so many sentences that don't *mean* anything.

 

Now you are misunderstanding what I am saying. God of course gives people time to repent and turn away from that which separates them from Him and his Love. It is only when we reach the point of no return that he must judge.

 

okay so if my dog doesnt come when called 3 times i should shoot it? where's the line? help me, kato sai

 

Rogue_Ten: The line usually is at death. You have tell death to decide to turn from those ways. However, if God sees that your dog will turn into a rapid dog that hurts you and other people, he may decide to put it down.

The counterbalance is that you can repent and invite Christ into your life/heart/soul. You then have God helping you not do those things that offend him. Plus his blood has covered the sin.

Lord Vivec, being demeaning will not help you in this debate.

 

oh okay so i have to wait for god to kill my disrespectful dog in an avalanche or whatever? my bad, i thought man had dominion over the animals. i guess your bible doesnt have genesis

 

anakinfansince1983, You cannot tell me what I am justifying. I am merely arguing that you cannot judge God on it, if he is God. I am not justifying murder, I said that if anyone can be exempt it is God. Murder means premeditated killing, God does not intend to kill man, he wants repentance (it says that that God desires that all men be saved), he even gave Ninevah almost 400 more years to turn from their wicked ways (Jonah 3). He even disappointed Jonah in this clemency. God even spared Cain, the First Murderer! He put a mark on him that no one could touch him (protection).

Rogue_Ten: Yes we have dominion, but God has dominion over us. We broke the pact remember? Adam and Eve brought Sin into the world and everything is suffering because of it. The animals actually will go to heaven, see Isaiah 52.

 

My argument is that if he is God he can do these things. I am not justifying murder, because I have already established what murder means. God gives man every chance to change. Murder is again premeditated or planned in advanced with guile and bitterness. God destroying evil people after they have lived for generation after generation is different, he gave them a chance. And what if they died of the sins they did? As I said in a post that has been completely ignored, that if people intentional do what will kill them, they are responsible not God.

 

so how should i punish my dog for his disrespect? i guess it doenst even matter at this point if he gets to go to heaven anyways. thanks for nothing

 

Well I thought your dog was an analogy, like you were trying to do what I was doing with the machines on the post that has not be taken into account.

All I ask from anyone is for them to speak their mind with respect. My goal is not to goad or bait, I wanted to discuss in a thread that is bound to have controversial issues and major points of disagreement. I think it is a shame people can not debate anymore without offense entering the debate.

"Here I stand, I can do no other."

anakinfansince1983, I am not here to win converts, I am here to debate the issues. As for what I said regarding the definition, I used poor rhetoric, I meant to say murder is defined according to what I've read according to the Law of my country is premeditated action of killing.

 

lol @ this guy

 

Kato Sai no i seriously want to know as a higher being, do i get to kill my dog because its been disrespectful to me? what woudl you do?

also im not seeing anything about all dogs going to heaven or whatever in isaiah 52. did you misquote?

 

what's wrong with rapid dogs? god, please spare my dog. i swear i'll make him slow down.

 

Here is my final sentiments (can I hear the cheers already). I came into this thread to debate issues of Christian Theology. I expected civility and an understanding that many people from different views would be coming to this thread to talk and that there would be respect. I have not called any of you wrong or made fun of what you've said. I have merely responded how someone in debating club or in two way, this case three way argument (the word according to philosophy: logic, not tone of voice and bickering). To my dismay even if someone disagrees with me, I am belittled. It is one thing to challenge me with your own view, that I welcome and would love! But to make remarks so unsavory about someone you hardly know except for what they have posted is in bad form. I never told you anakinfansince1983 what you were doing or what you thought or that I knew exactly what you wanted to justify. Did I make some mistakes in my argument, of course. But the heart of what I wanted to achieve was a debate that made us all think, I wanted to consider your words too about murder more, but the way I have been treated makes me hesitate.

I wish you all the highest regard. I hope that from this experience something can be learned. Fare well.

Edit: It was Isaiah 11:6-9 Rogue_Ten:

The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearlingtogether;
and a little child will lead them.
7 The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8 The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.
9 They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord
as the waters cover the sea.

 

umm that's a pretty well-known and obvious metaphor for human beings, Kato Sai

its generally interpreted as extolling the absolute peace of the millennium and/or the signs of the coming of the messiah, not that animals somehow get to go to heaven

 

Ender Sai it looks like your name is getting popular among the fundamentalist Christian crowd.

 

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/nonchristianaccounts.html

http://www.probe.org/site/apps/nlnet/content.aspx?c=fdKEIMNsEoG&b=4282487&ct=5516783

Jesus according to non Christians during the early centuries AD before Constantine the Great.