Senate Christianity Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by Jabba-wocky, Aug 1, 2013.

  1. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    Siiiiiigh. You guys are really hellbent on proving the Senate mods right, aren't you?

    So to recap: timmo has trouble understanding the concept of faith (seriously, read Kierkegaard), GenAntilles has a little trouble with science (seriously, read, I don't know, Stephen Hawking or something), Rogue is being Rogue, and I am an atheist that is shouting down other atheists for being uncharitable in their attacks on religion.....sigh.
    Sarge likes this.
  2. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    I just looked at the latest posts in the equivalent Senate thread for comparison, and someone apparently believes that Luke actually wrote the Gospel of Luke. lol

    These threads are never really good. The big difference is that Rogue would've been edited and banned in the Senate.
    Last edited by Darth Guy, Aug 3, 2013
  3. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    It takes a great misunderstanding of science to equate "there is no evidence for x" with "x is proven to not exist."
  4. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    It is impossible to definitively state a thing does not exist. But as long as there is zero evidence for a thing, there is no reason to believe that thing exists. If evidence does show up, I will certainly reevaluate my position. That's all it takes. Some actual, objective, unbiased, empirical evidence.

    [IMG]

    The Lord commands you to go to Wal-Mart tomorrow and kill everyone who is working there. After all, if the Bible says it, it must be true.
    Last edited by timmoishere, Aug 3, 2013
  5. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 6
    dont hate, dilb and deeg. you wish you could post like me
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Aug 3, 2013
  6. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
  7. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 6
    because i spit hot fiyah
  8. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Things are just over-heated from the backlog of opinions right now. In a few days it will settle out. Timmoishere will either start being ignored, or revert to more occasional bomb-throwing. Either way, actual discussion will surface at some point.

    Mostly, though--as in all things-Even is correct. It's not like the trajectory of this thread has been any different in the Senate, save they don't have Rogue Number Ten to color the proceedings.
  9. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 6
    the senate cant handle me. they be like:

    "oh no, my sweet Logic... melting away from the onslaught of emotional appeals and mockery... mitt romney save me... nooooooo-"

    *derezzes into strings of ones and zeroes which then dissipate into the æther*
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Aug 4, 2013
  10. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Let's not get carried away. If Recession Spending was strolling down the Haterade aisle, it's also true that your recent trolling efforts have been the equivalent of America's Funniest Home Videos in a world that's already seen the Chappelle Show.
  11. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 6
  12. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Then I look forward to you taking up with Richard Dawkins the fact he's been using your first phrase to argue the second for the past ten years or so. And I might note timmoi says for all intents and purposes, gods do not exist using the lack of proof as the chosen bootstrap of levitation. Like I said, hair-splitting about the ultimate result of both assertions is disingenuous, and it's also arrogant beyond the dreams of the most self-important of clerics.
  13. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Let's look at this a different way. Do extraterrestrials exist? Possibly. Have we ever seen any evidence of them? No. Therefore, the best way to operate is on the assumption that they do not, in fact, exist. The only thing that can change that position is evidence: archaeological evidence of them arriving in the past, a message from them, or aliens actually landing on Earth in the present day. Saying "My Uncle Jim and Aunt Sue were abducted by aliens, so they must exist" is not evidence. Anecdotal accounts are intrinsically unreliable in the scientific realm. In order for something to be believable, it must be objective, it must be repeatable, and it must be verifiable by any who wish to do so.
  14. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2011
    star 4
    In the Bible, God did command the Israelites to destroy the Canaanites utterly when they entered the Promised Land - because He knew they would be a snare to Israel with their way of life and their worship of idols. As it happened, the Israelites did not obey God - and they paid the price. God even warned Israel through Moses in the Book of Deuteromnomy that they would rebel against Him, but Israel said, basically, "Not so! We will always follow You." Guess what happened - the Cannanites weren't wiped out, and because Israel disobeyed, God let the Canaanites that survived remain in the land as a thorn in Israel's side.

    Another thing, the Old Testament Laws don't necessarily apply to Christians. The Ten Commandments do, yes, and a few others, but the Law as a whole remains in force only for the Jews; Christians are not under Law but under grace. But the picture is taking the Exodus verse out of context. We should rest on the Sabbath day, but quite frankly, it's not feasible in this day and age. What would happen if everyone refused to work on Sunday. Not practical, but I hardly think God wants us to kill people over it.

    However, I don't think that God would have approved of the Crusades or some of what the Catholic Church (and I mean no offense to any Catholics here by this, but it is the truth) have done in His name since the days of Christ. The Fourth Crusade, especially, was a mess, with the Westerners attacking their fellow brothers in Constantinople. In the film "Kingdom of Heaven" one character has a line that I think aptly sums up what God thinks of such actions of the sword of Christians in His name since the early days of the Church:

    "So they're dying for what the Pope would command them to do."
    "Yes. But not Christ, I think."
    Last edited by Skywalker8921, Aug 4, 2013
    Sarge likes this.
  15. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Ah, so anytime a Christian quotes the Bible, it's true, but anytime someone else quotes the Bible, it's taken out of context. *facepalm*

    And if you're trying to go with the "Old Testament doesn't apply" route, I have just one passage for you: Matthew 5:17-18 "17“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

    So I guess that settles it. The first five books of the Bible are commonly referred to as Law, so unless you are planning on ignoring a direct quote from Jesus, you can't get away with ignoring anything printed there.
  16. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    You are still misunderstanding it

    It is allowed to support a position by saying there is no empirical evidence for it. For example, there is no evidence for the existence of negative mass that is required for VLM's damned warp drive nonsense. This is why I don't think it will work.

    The same thing applies to deities. No evidence they exist, so I don't think they exist.

    You call it hairsplitting, but to a scientist like myself it's not. Before you start throwing around labels like disingenuous, get an education on how a scientist like myself or Dawkins thinks.
    Last edited by Lord Vivec, Aug 4, 2013
  17. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2011
    star 4
    No, you're completely ignoring what I said. The Law is still in force, yes, but Christians "are not under the law, but under grace." This is the second part of Romans 6:14. Christians are not bound by the Old Testament covenant, but the New Covenant instituted by Christ. The entire Law still exists, true, but Jesus' sacrifice, once for all, on the cross meant that Christians do not have to offer sacrifices like the Israelites did to atone for their sins or anything like that. The Jews still follow the entire Law, but we Christians are not required to do so, only the aspects that carry over into the New Covenant.

    And I notice you completely ignored what I said about the Sabbath and how unfeasible it is for all humans to take a day of rest in this day and age. How about studying and responding reasonably what I said instead of being so quick to try to cut me down?
    Last edited by Skywalker8921, Aug 4, 2013
  18. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2011
    star 4
    As for the question that has been raised about death in the world prior to Adam and Eve:

    Nope.

    With Adam's Fall in Eden, sin entered the world, and the result of the entrance of sin was physical death. Before that, death did not exist.
    Sarge likes this.
  19. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    The law exists but you don't have to follow it? So it's not a law then.

    Edit: nothing died? That contradicts biology a lot.
    Last edited by Lord Vivec, Aug 4, 2013
  20. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2011
    star 4
    I've explained it. You're just choosing not to listen.

    Edit: Again, choosing not to listen.
    Last edited by Skywalker8921, Aug 4, 2013
  21. tom Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 6
    there must have been so many cockroaches.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  22. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Yes. Whereas the parts about making an entire human being from clay, a magical tree, and an angel with a giant flaming sword were perfectly sound. Really, is your complaint about a story that specifically involves miraculous divine intervention "that contradicts biology?"

    She doesn't have to follow it. The Uniform Code of Military Justice is also a body of laws. It's just one that doesn't apply to me. It's not a very radical concept.
  23. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    And why the hell didn't Noah swat those damn mosquitoes?
  24. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2011
    star 4
    Running a bit of a rabbit here, but:

    Jabba, what are your thoughts on the period of the Judges and the Early United Kingdom? More specifically, the chronology? I Kings 6:1 sets the fourth year of Solomon reign as 480 years after the Exodus. In the past I've tried to figure out how the Wilderness Wanderings, the Conquest, the Judges, and Saul and David all fit into that time frame. I eventually realized that some Judges mentioned should probably be considered minor, and not national, Judges. But I still haven't been able to figure out how it all fits. Do you have any insights?
  25. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    Wocky you know me better. When has that been my only complaint?