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Full Series Clan Wren

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by MandoArtist, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. Orrelios

    Orrelios Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2005
    I still don't see the necessity of either her or Rook being Sabine's mom. They can still have them in the show as this isn't the only reason to bring them back.
     
  2. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Rook makes a lot of sense as said a bunch, namely if they're using Gar Saxon of SOD.
     
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  3. DAH

    DAH Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2017
    Im hoping it's Bo-Katan.......imagine her face when Sabine shows her the Dark Saber?......
     
  4. Darth_Voider

    Darth_Voider Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 4, 2015
    I think Dave Filoni already confirmed that Sabine is not related to Bo-Katan.
     
  5. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Yep even before the show aired Filoni told us he knew fans would make connections between Satine and Sabine so he told us right away that they're not related. Then we learned she was house Vizsla, not house Kryze and most importantly Sabine is not white.
     
  6. DavrelKex

    DavrelKex Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2016

    Just because we didn't see them use swords doesn't mean they don't use melee weapons - they were frequently being shown being extremely competent in unarmed combat, so not much of a stretch that some would use electroblades or something like what the troopers have in VII. I always got the impression that Viszla was just high on the idea of living the "Crusader dream" and had never actually fought a Jedi before and for whatever reason thought it would be easy. Additionally, at that point in time they didn't seem like they had started arming their gauntlets yet. I reckon season 4 or 5 Viszla vs Kenobi would've been an interesting fight.

    As for the story with Death Watch/Maul/Rau/Protectors/Traitors I think the answer is that Fenn Rau and the Protectors are in fact the "warriorized" Royal Guard from TCW, meaning that from their perspective they knew exactly what happened with Maul, Death Watch, and Satine. This is, mind you, a major leap of faith I'm making, but the design of Rau's armor in the midseason trailer is basically just a heavier version of the Royal Guard's armor from TCW, right down to the color scheme, pattern, even the sky blue iron heart in the center of the chest piece.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    While various factions of Mandalorians may be skilled warriors and rudimentary trained in different weapons, that seems only basic training level stuff. Satine's guards were mainly ceremonial and defensive, their lethality is also questionable since the government deplored violence and rejected their warrior ways of the past and they had only a small defensive para-military and royal security guard. None of that has to do with swords or being sword proficient nor a culture based around sword fighting amongst the modern Mandalorians. The only sword apparently is the Darksaber, and that was symbolic of Vizsla and his allies and recruits into the old ways with his Death Watch organization that only numbered around 5,000. Satine's guards using staffs and nightsticks does not equate to swords. There is no evidence of swords even being ceremonial amongst her men or his. Moreover, also even ancient Mandalorians killed Jedi and sacked the temple, why only apparently Vizsla's ancestor was the one that took a lightsaber, wouldnt there be other trophies amongst the other families or clans. Even the Nightsisters had two or three Jedi lightsabers as trophies of some kind that they eventually put to use in attacking Count Dooku. Nothing on the modern gear of modern Mandalorians suggests swordsmen. A sword being ceremonial is also not the same thing I was talking about. Furthermore, many peoples in SW use melee weapons including knives and swords. There is no evidence that modern Mandalorians professionally use swords, nor that swords are official weapons or standardized weapons nor that they proficiently specialized in their use. Sabine is obviously being trained how to use a lightsaber in the trailer. There is more to sword fighting than just swinging a sword.

    Rau got beaten by Sabine, as did Saxon. I wouldnt really place either of them in really great light as warriors, especially since both are veterans. While they are victims of the writers, it is what it is. Satine's para-military soldiers were really garbage, they got overran within a few minutes or at best hours by the Black Sun and Pykes, and it was not like they stood a chance against Savage. If they could not take Savage than what hope did they have in stopping Jedi Knights. Not even Vizsla's men were a match for lightsaber using warriors, let alone able to stop Force warriors. Is the quality of the Mandalorians really as it good as it was in the past, we don't even know, nor do we just how good they were in canon for that matter. Laser swords outside the Jedi order is very rare to absent, I don't see vibroswords or weapons alone standing up to or stopping lightsabers and Jedi Knights.
     
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  8. DavrelKex

    DavrelKex Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2016

    Sigh. You really need to not take things so precisely at face value, and to learn to seperate established lore from cinematic and theatrical restrictions or limitations. Lore exists to support story, not the other way around. Ask Pablo Hidalgo.

    Saying Fenn Rau and Gar Saxon are weak because Sabine "beat" them is the equivalent of saying Darth Maul is a weak Sith because he "lost" to a just-blinded Kanan. Stories are linear, and happen exactly the way the writers want them to happen to progress the story a specific direction. Yea, Saxon and his Imp supercommandos weren't visually super-amazing fighters, but that does not mean that they *aren't* super amazing fighters. Look up "Imperial Super commandos" on starwars.com databank which is a source for canon lore, and they are described as "their masterful combat skills are eclipsed only by their ruthlessness". Does that match up visually with what was shown on the show? No, because it's a cartoon.

    As far as "quality" goes, Mandalorians are just humans with a specific sort of culture, they aren't force users with varying "power" levels. It's all just gear, skill, and experience. Are modern Mandos less effective than ancient ones? Sure, their warrior culture at that point is barely existent and that vast majority have likely never encountered a Jedi. Add a little experience, training and better gear as they did along the course of TCW and it's not farfetched at all. We even see them be quite effective from the get-go; during the Mandalore Plot episode, Kenobi is taken down by two random grunts. One shoots the lightsaber out of his hand, and starts brawling with Kenobi, and another comes up and they finish him off. He only lives because, well, he's Kenobi, so insert James Bond-esque elaborate trap execution for Kenobi to inevitably escape from. Later, another grunt has Kenobi at gunpoint after charging him through smoke, but is distracted by Satine for convenience.

    Later in that same arc, we watch a Death Watch assassin pretty much wreck Kenobi until Satine throws him his lightsaber that he was again disarmed of by the warrior just in time to force pin the guy against wall and throw him away before he can bring his rifle around and fire.

    In Friends in Need, another DW random charges Ahsoka, disarms her, and is strangling her until R2 shoots oil or whatever in his visor to distract him, thus saving Ahsoka. Again, convenience.
    Seconds later Bo-Katan is brawling her and gets her on the ropes and is about to execute her with her gauntlet blaster before whatshisname jerks the speeder around, allowing Ahsoka to regain her footing and force push Bo-Katan away so they can escape.

    When you're throwing a bunch of relatively minor villains against the main protagonists, especially in a cartoon, there's only so much you can do with the bad guys to make them credible threats without killing the protagonists, and neither Kenobi nor Ahsoka were gonna be killed off in such a fashion. Just not gonna happen.

    As far as weaponry, Jango killed Coleman Trebor, a Jedi Master of the Jedi Council no less, with little more than some excellent sharpshooting. Trebor was even deflecting some of the shots until they started getting through. Then we see Mace forced to escape from Fett's flamethrower, though of course he inevitably whacks off ol' daddy Fett because he's Mace Windu.

    Viszla vs Maul shows exactly why the weapon gauntlets are so important for Mandos; there's no way Viszla was going to last that long against a force wielder of Maul's caliber without his own arsenal to create distance and keep Maul on the defensive. A lesser Jedi/Sith would've died in that fight. Viszla could've just, y'know, tilted his flamethrower a bit lower but again, that's not what the story called for. It need Maul to win and Viszla to die, but they wanted to show, per Dave Filoni if you watch the featurette, "Mandalorian armor at work against someone who has the force."

    And for anti lightsaber weapons we already know they have those energy shields on the gauntlet. I didn't say laser sword, I said an electrosword. We already know weapons just need an energy or electrical field to block a lightsaber, I.E. an electro staff like we saw in episode III or the riot baton the stormtrooper had in VII. If the tech is common enough for storm troopers to carry, not much of a stretch to imagine Mandalorians who already possess very sophisticated weaponry to have energized swords or something similar.


    So really, anything can happen. Don't take stuff at face value so much. Star Wars is fun, no need to make it so linear.
     
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  9. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Very nice catch on the armor designs! I knew they looked familiar... And this may fit in with the idea that the Protectors were against Death Watch way back in TCW.

    Also, just add something to this discussion about the melee skills of the modern Mandalorians: Didn't we see the Honor Guard deflecting blaster bolts with their staffs in One of the Season 2 episodes? I distinctly remember a pair of Honor Guards standing firm against Super Battle Droids, twirling their staffs, and blaster bolts heading right back down the corridor. And the trailer shows that Gar Saxon seems at least skilled enough to feel confident charging a lightsaber wielding Sabine, so most likely a martial tradition of swordsmanship exists among Mandalorian elite akin to European fencing and Kendo's popularity among the rich today, at the least. And considering the stronger tradition of martial skills among the Mandos, it's probably more prevalent among them in the GFFA than it is among us.
     
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  10. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    DavrelKex

    Kanan tripped Maul over a statue and he fell off the ledge, Maul later tossed Kanan out've an airlock as payback.

    The value is what I said. All your doing is inventing and assuming all sorts of stuff based on an ancient mural , probably during a time when many peoples used swords of whatever kind. All the other stuff coming from you is lot of irrelevant tangents. Blasters replaced the sword for Mandalorians in the current timeline, and whatever other gadgets they have in their arsenal and disposal . But when they have honor duels amongst eachother, its the blaster like pistol duels that replaced the swords of earth you know, modernized. Tar Vizsla apparently created the darksaber, as a Jedi Knight. The first Mandalorian inducted into the Jedi Order. So whatever the sword stuff currently basically begins and ends with the Darksaber for these "old" style Mandalorians of Death Watch or Protectors. Its a cult surrounding Tar and the darksaber.

     
  11. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Eh, it kind of sounds like you're doing the same thing; presuming Mandalorian sword tradition must be focused exclusively on one ancient legend and relic is the same thing.
     
  12. DavrelKex

    DavrelKex Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2016
    All I'm saying is based on what we've seen; at some point, Mandalorians used swords prominently, even after they gained armor and gadgets. In the giant mural shown during the Maul/Savage/Sidious fight, you see them with armor and rifles and swords, and then the Mando in the back has what looks to be the Darksaber. I'm not saying that swordplay is super common or anything; I'm just saying that's not big of stretch that Mandos here and there probably still practice swordplay or carry electroblades or something in case they run into Jedi. I mean hell, I'm a machinist in real life, but I still learned how to fence in college. Blasters and gadgets just serve their purposes more often than a melee weapon does in modern times. It's a maybe kind of thing. I like to think that it does still happen, and there's nothing to contradict it, so *shrug*. We're both going to believe what we want to believe so I guess it doesn't matter.

    But I think we can all agree that holy crap the Darksaber has a really cool history; way more interesting than I thought it would be given. I honestly didn't think we'd get so much detail on it.
     
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  13. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    So, with the release of that new clip for this week's episode, I've got an observation about Sabine's mom and her clan: it definetly looks like they have a unique armor style, with slightly different suit geometry, which plays nicely into Sabine's non-standard armor and the family history of using art in warfare.

    So... How do you see Mama Wren/Kast ending this epidose in regards to the Rebellion, her daughter, and her Clan? I feel the safe money is on having her reconcile with her daughter, and take the clan into hiding from the Empire, so that Sabine can lead the cavalry in the finale.
     
  14. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
  15. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy

    ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Not until it airs later today. TBH we may as well turn this thread into one about Sabine's whole family.
     
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  16. tampering

    tampering Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Will be interesting to see about the dad. I wonder if he's a warrior like her mom or more of a Mandalorian softie. Mama's mention of him leaves it open as to what he's like.

    Also Sabine and her brother were probably raised primarily by someone else (not mom) since they haven't picked up her accent.

    Also I note, it was some creative casting the Wren family to be voiced by South Asian actors to match Tiya voicing Sabine. I know its animation and the actors dont look like the characters on screen but it's pretty neat they did this.
     
  17. TheSilentInfluence

    TheSilentInfluence Retired Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Done. It's now the Clan Wren thread.

    Also my question right now is that could Clan Wren be matriarchal? I mean Sabine's mom was countess of their clan and had a big picture of herself over her throne. So would that mean Sabine is her heir instead of Tristan?
     
  18. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    That may be only because her Father is a hostage. They may simply her hierarchical so Dad would be in charge..but as he is in custody Ursa is in charge...and after her it would be Tristan if he is oldest...if Sabine was older it would be her.
     
  19. TheSilentInfluence

    TheSilentInfluence Retired Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2014
    It just got answered in Rebels Recon. Ursa is the Wren and Sabine's father married into the house and took Ursa's name. But yeah, I think Sabine is older then Tristan.
     
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  20. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 21, 2014
    Just saw it as well.
     
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  21. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 15, 2015
    Mace was able to kill Jango because his jetpack was damaged.
     
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  22. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    so Sabine wasn't even born on Mandalore....intresting.
     
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  23. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2011
    We'll probably see them again in the Mandalore storyline they're setting up for S4. that's where they'll find Bo-Katan who I suppose will refuse at first and then change her mind.
     
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  24. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Although she's not my favorite Mando, I do think she'll stay on & become Mand'alor because this way Disney doesn't have to kill her off.
     
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  25. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Not a fan of her "leaving."

    Also they wouldn't have to kill her off anyway. Some fans may think that they all have to die, but that's not really the case. The only ones who are kind of "iffy" in that regard are Kanan and Ezra because they're Jedi and the Empire knows that already. But even there, there are ways around it besides just death.