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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

CT Classic Trilogy Special Effects Failures

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Delta Scepter, Aug 17, 2014.

  1. Prequel_Rubbish

    Prequel_Rubbish Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2014
    With all due respect, while you are entitled to your opinion I think you will find yourself to be in the significant minority on this issue. There is nothing MUCH wider about the range of emotions displayed by CGI Yoda, unless you want to describe them as cartoonish and lacking any subtlety whatsoever. Perhaps in the next updated version of AOTC Yoda can hold a sign that says he is DETERMINED YODA, and then in the updated version after that some CGI affects can be added to the sign to make it read "EPICALLY DETERMINED YODA".
     
  2. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013
    I've noticed a number of people mention that we're being nitpicky and looking at the OT with modern eyes, but this is not entirely true. Among the most common complaints about TESB by test audiences back then was that the tauntans looked fake. The special effects department was really disappointed to hear this, as they had devoted so much time to getting those shots right.

    It's hard to call some of the FX shots failures as they were the best they could do back then. They had no choice but to use matte paintings. They didn't have the budget to make huge X-wing hangars and buildings. The matte shots that I think were a failure even for that time were those of the Cloud City exterior. Some of those don't look much better than the Emerald City in The Wizard of Oz.

    I think even for its time some of the shots in the ANH's Trench run were failures. GL was incredibly pressed for time, and they didn't have a huge budget. I'm sure if the studio had given them another year and a few million more dollars a few of those shots with X-wings blowing up look like toy models could've been replaced with more realistic shots, and I don't understand why GL didn't improve them for the SE or the blu-ray releases. The super star destroyer crashing into the surface of the the DS2 in ROTJ is another that really stands out to me. That could've been done better, even back then. The explosion doesn't look right, and the surface of the Death Star 2 looks like a model, and its surface also looks flat, not curved, and even if it was easier to use a flat model for the DS2, they could've used a wide angle lens to make the surface look curved (and I know the DS was supposed to be big, but not that big).

    I also remember being a little disappointed by the rancor sequence even when I was a kid. I thought the monster looked great, but I must've seen something about the making of King Kong, and I was disappointed that they basically used the same approach with the rancor scene. Shots of the rancor and then Luke ends up fighting the rancor's hand.

    For me, probably the most impressive piece of special effects work was the chase inside the DS2 in ROTJ. I think that sequence would not only fit but even stand out in any film today. As the three films go, I would have to say that the FX work of TESB probably best stands the test of time.

    Finally, the PT Yoda vs OT Yoda disagreement: they can both be good!:) I think the way Kershner lit puppet Yoda really went a long way to selling his realism.
     
  3. Seagoat

    Seagoat Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    Prequel_Rubbish try using this:

    [​IMG]

    To create an expression like this:

    [​IMG]

    It simply can't be done. The squinted eyes, the taut lips, the strong stance, etc. It's too much all at once for the puppet to achieve
     
  4. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    Ooh, CGI Yoda has his angry face on!

    There's no subtlety to that. I'd rather watch Frank Oz any day. He didn't need a programmed list of 1001 facial expressions; he could use body language and movement to sell the Yoda experience.
     
  5. Prequel_Rubbish

    Prequel_Rubbish Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Seagoat

    I don't think you understand my point. Something I notice a lot about fans of the prequels and SE and CGI is that they don't seem to "get" subtlety and complexity. They seem to be amenable to on-the-nose dialogue and effects and characterizations that smack them in the face. The more spelled out everything is, the more they enjoy it. That's why I made the crack about DETERMINED YODA and EPICALLY DETERMINED YODA. No doubt there is someone out there who would find SUPER DUPER EPIC BEYOND BELIEF YODA to be the best of all. And, if that's their preference, so be it, I'm not going to tell them what to like, but they shouldn't expect anything else but to be in the very small minority.

    To me, there is absolutely nothing impressive about CGI Yoda, including the picture and the scene you linked. It's cartoonish, I think I used that word accurately.

    It also boggles my mind how 870 year old Yoda could be characterized as physically robust, but 900 year old Yoda is old and feeble and on his death bed. For continuity and characterization's sake, it would just make more sense for ESB puppet Yoda to have been included throughout the entire series.
     
  6. Seagoat

    Seagoat Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    1. Ah, so basically you're more of a fan of the "less is more" approach? I think I get what you're saying now. I mean don't get me wrong, I love both Yodas. I simply personally feel that more can be done with CG

    2. Well to be fair, he spent 2 decades isolated on a swamp planet with nothing but the Force and the natural resources around him to keep him going. Without any physical exercise going on, particularly healthy foods being eaten, or complete lack of medicine, he's bound to fall ill in his old age
     
    Saga Explorer and Andy Wylde like this.
  7. lovelikewinter

    lovelikewinter Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    May 28, 2014

    The just shot the actors in front of a bluescreen and added in a matte painting. Kinda like the Prequels.
     
    thejeditraitor likes this.
  8. RedVad

    RedVad Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2012
    One image is lit very differently from the other though.
     
  9. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    As a practical FX geek, sometimes I get a bit cranky about these things, but if I get so sucked into the world and the characters' stories, I do not notice FX flubs.

    That is the case with the OT.

    Besides, Rick Baker slip on masks and Phil Tippet's awesome stop motion critters/vehicles, how could I not love those?
     
    solo77 likes this.
  10. Andy Wylde

    Andy Wylde Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2014
    People who like the CGI Yoda are in the "minority" as opposed to those who like the puppet Yoda then must be in the "majority"? I would love for anyone to prove this theory to me with "reliable" sources? And I will not be holding my breath because this will take a very, very, very loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time.
     
    Saga Explorer likes this.
  11. KINGKONG83

    KINGKONG83 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 22, 2004
    As the title say,this extends to both special effects,acting or any ol thang rumbling round the ol' noggin ..




    OK for me it was when 3PO spots the sandcrawler and then we see what is supposed to be said sandcrawler...it always looked a bit dodgy to me,like a black flickering smear on the negative or something to that effect(no pun intended)

    Now you go,pull away the pedestal for just a moment and have some fun:)

    AND MERRY XMAS STAR WARS FANS!
     
  12. Among the Clouds

    Among the Clouds Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 18, 2001
  13. solo77

    solo77 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Don't we have a million of these threads already?! [face_tired]
     
  14. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Yeah, merging with the CT Special Effects failures thread.
     
  15. Arch Stanton

    Arch Stanton Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2014

    Stop.

    This is becoming a pattern on the PT/CT boards. Just because you disagree with someone, it does not, under any circumstances, give you the right to violate the TOS and demean them as a "troll." If you need to Google what a "troll" is, then I invite you to do so. You have been warned.
     
  16. Seagoat

    Seagoat Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    No, actually I'm a goat. I don't live under a bridge
     
  17. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Quoting a post from a while ago, but I think the second shot is great.

    For one thing, it looks like it very well could have been a shot from the original 1977 version, which isn't the case with a lot of the other additions.

    But, most importantly, the second shot actually establishes roughly where Ben's hut is in relation to where the characters were before--which is a good thing for an establishing shot to do.
     
    Alexrd, Saga Explorer and -Jedi Joe- like this.
  18. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014
    Here's pt 1 of the tv show I mentioned where they analyse the effects for some scenes in ROTJ.

     
    redxavier likes this.
  19. Bobatron

    Bobatron Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Back in the arguably better times of not reading more information online, I just thought it was something Obi-Wan was doing with the lightsaber on purpose. I'm not really reading these replies because I like to avoid mistakes in movies. If I catch a boom microphone or a reflection, I make myself look away.
     
  20. Ord-Mantell70

    Ord-Mantell70 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Thanks.

    It explains the process of blue screen and composite shots really well actually.
     
  21. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2013
    The original Sy Snooties puppet was bad, really really bad, you could even see the string on her mouth. No wonder she was replaced with a better CGI version. The Max Rebo puppet is also pretty bad, he looks like he was designed by a 4 year old and is really fake looking. Alot of the Jabba palace puppets could have been better done than they were, Jabba himself is good though, he probably ate up most of the budget.

    I also think CGI Yoda is better than puppet Yoda.
     
  22. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    I think CGI Jabba is better, especially in TPM.
     
    Saga Explorer likes this.
  23. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011

    I think puppet Jabba is better, but CGI Jabba gets the job done. Puppet Jabba is still around, so we get the best of both worlds.

    Though I do adore the sense of wet, lurching mass the animators and sound designers give to Jabba when he inches around like a giant slug in A New Hope.
     
    Saga Explorer likes this.
  24. Saga Explorer

    Saga Explorer Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2015
    Rodians in A New Hope look too much alike .
    Original X-Wing scenes (thank George Lucas that he fixed them in the Special Editions)
    The original "Han shot first" scene is a bit off at the end .
    Original Alderaan's and Death Star's destructions .
    Stormtroopers often don't move like soldiers.(that's probably because of the costumes)
    Original Wampa and Han's tauntaun's death.
    With that said I like that in the new versions we still get to see the original Wampa costume for a moment and Sy Snootles with a microphone as a puppet.
    Even when some of these effects aged I like to see them on screen.
    (I love to see how they're done and even compare the changes from the films)
    I love Yoda's puppet but the CGI can do much more.
     
  25. Chancellor Yoda

    Chancellor Yoda Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 25, 2014
    I hate to point out this ( as it was likely already pointed out) as I really like these creatures but I did notice the tauntauns looking rather jerky.

     
    Iron_lord likes this.