clerks rant

im not sure if you guys have seen clerks but i currently rewatched again and randal had the most amazing point...the rebellion is all about preserving life, and destroying the empire and punishing evil...but what i dont understand is this, are the rebels gonna fight the empire at all costs, or do they take civilian lives into consideration...

FYI, if you havnt seen clerks a character in the movie made a point that in ANH when the rebels blow up the death star evil is punished and no big deal...however in ROTJ the empire was already crippled and the death star was only half way complete so they would have to call in civilian repairmen, engineers, the whole lot to construct something of that magnitude...so are the rebels only concerned with stopping the empire at any cost, or was this not factored into the films?

 

It's not factored into the films.SW has always been pretty B&W,a Good vs Evil story,there where no independent contractors on the DS II.Everybody on the Station was evil.Both are supposted heroic moments all the characters killed are symbols of evil.

 

When you're on the Death Star, you're not exactly innocent.

 

Whoever took that job knew what they were getting into.

Actually, Lucas addresses this Clerks rant in the commentary track for AOTC.

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[b]George Lucas:[/b] We had this sequence, and because we added it, I came up with the idea of adding a little schematic of the Death Star in here because The Geonosians build robots and build things, they were sort of construction workers. They would be the ones who would probably be contracted to build the Death Star... and they were the ones that Jay and Silent Bob were worried that they got killed on the Death Star, but they are after all, just a bunch of large termites.[hr][/blockquote]It's funny, because it wasn't Jay and Silent Bob who were worried, it was Randal and Dante, and they weren't worried about the workers for the first Death Star.

 

Yeah, I have to agree with whichever one said that everyone on the station was evil and knew what they were getting into (I can't remember if it was Dante or Randall). If it was the first Death Star, that would be one thing. No one really had seen what it was capable of. By the second one, though, any independent contractor knew exactly what they were building because they knew what happened to Alderaan. They either were aligned with the Empire, or they didn't care that the station was going to destroy planets and they just wanted to get paid for a cushy government job. Their choices can't be excused and they can't be viewed as innocent and helpless civilians. They made their choice and they had to suffer the consequences of aligning with evil. The rebels can't be seen as evil terrorists for that.

 

well thanks for the input to all, i just thought it was kind of funny, and i NEVEr knew that lucas addressed it in AOTC, that is funny, but he should watch clerks bc its not j & sb its dante and randall, i did always enjoy randals rant about sw as well as clash of the titans bc he brings up good points, after watching clerks again, and fanboys (which was funny as **** if your a fan) just thought id see what other sw fans thought

 

Well, the real irony is that it depends on the Imperials' status as Always Chaotic Evil (Vader exempted) and the Rebels' status as Always Lawful Good. (I know, the Empire's Always Lawful Evil and the Rebels are Always Chaotic Good, but bear with me.)

Of course, in the EU, this is averted by numerous Imperials, as well as the New Republic debating whether to throw the Sun Crusher into the nearest black hole or turn it on the Empire. Not to mention Fey'lya. Luke, the ultimate Always Lawful Good, destroys a few planets in Dark Empire. And then there's Jacen...

 

I like the SW rant in Clerks 2, where Randall makes the ROTK fan puke.

 

HAHAHA to true!!!!!! randall is totally right when he says there is only one trilogy...i cant really even count episodes 1-3 bc to me the only true trilogy is 4-6, the rest of em just werent that good...fanboys was AMAZING at the end, if youve seen it and your not a fan of TPM youll know what im talking about...and i wish i could make a LOTR fan puke haha...and sam and froto for the record are REALLY gay haha...sorry if your a fan, im def not

 

Mannequin Skywalker.

 

Your misspelling of Frodo is funny for reasons I won't mention here.

Anyway, that's because it was reimagined for the modern nerd culture, with female nerds. And it turns out most female nerds like slash. My girlfriend can't get enough of the stuff. (She knows it won't translate into real life.) So the emphasis is on male friendships instead because female nerds are fascinated by males, masculinity, and how any two males are lovers friends until proven otherwise.

These days, Dumbledore's gay, so slash has become so mainstream that now incest is the new slash. So in a way, Star Wars is ahead of its time.

So, in short, Sam and Frodo weren't intended to be gay. But fangirls can see gay subtext in anything. For all I know, I might inhabit a fictional universe wherein fangirls write fanfics about me with other dudes.

?the dark spider (I'm not a mutant! Not that there's anything wrong with that...)

 

HAHA wow!!!!!! i learned a lot about LOTR hahaha....so your saying that lesbians are to guys as gays are to chicks? like guys like lesbians an girls like gay guys?

 

"Danger! Danger! My !@#$%^ acting is ruining saga!"

 

Well, my comments were more about female nerds than LOTR.

Anyway, at the time, Tolkien was still able to call Orcs "in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the least lovely Mongol-types" without anyone batting an eye. I seriously doubt he intended Sam and Frodo to be gay. This was of course, the theme of the times: Lovecraft made similar comparisons to blacks.

Then again, a certain 21st-century novel meant for tweens has all sorts of Unfortunate Implications.

 

Was that by chance a Seinfeld reference? The episode where that reporter thinks George and Jerry are lovers?

I dont think that there would have been civilian workers on that, because they have droids to do basically everything for them. Why would they use humans that they may have to pay, or that wouldn't be gauranteed to do a good job when you could use droids? They wouldn't talk back, they would work multiple times more efficiently than humans, and its less people they have to feed and provide living conditions for. I am highly confident there were strictly work droids building and adding on. Who builds onto the outside of it, or the rooms that aren't air-tight and therefore do not have oxygen? Did the empire shell out hundreds of space suits for humans? I doubt it. Droids can work in any condition, and the only time they need to take a break is when they need to be re-charged.

I was surprised in the Jedi Academy Trilogy when some of the New Republic didn't object to Kyp destroying the Caridian star system, that the Imperial training facility was on. Although this does bring up another point. Although there were no innocent civilians doing maitenance on the Death Star, not every storm trooper signed up. When the planet Deyer objected to the first Death Star destroying Alderaan, males of the proper age were taken prisoner and forced to go into Imperial training camps. If this happened on one planet, I am sure it has happened on other planets. So basically, some innocent people still died, but that was probably better than being Storm Trooper slaves anyway, so they should be relieved.

 

How'd you guess? It was also a reference to how since the 90s, in X-Men, "mutant" has been a code for "gay". The Legacy Virus sealed the deal (especially when Marvel swore they wouldn't cure the Legacy Virus until AIDS was cured...then they cured it anyway), and of course in the movie, we had "Could you just try not being a mutant?"

That was the point. I mean, last I checked, Luke did some damage to Mon Calamari and destroyed Byss.

It's all ultimately morally pointless, when you look at the hard numbers. No matter how many Imperials were drafted, the Death Star had already killed more people than Luke killed by blowing it up.

 

morally pointless? I'm afraid I don't understand the point you are making.

 

I really don't understand the need for organic labor anyway given droid technology and the industrial capacity available.

 

I have not read and am not familiar with Luke doing some damage to Mon Calamari or destroying Byss.

What series would those be in?

 

Let's look at the hard math: If Luke hadn't blown up the Death Star and killed those Imperials, the Death Star would've blown up more planets.

Of course, what Luke didn't know is that he would wish he didn't blow it up in 30 years.

 

I guess you missed the construction worker in the same scene who brings up the guys who re-shingled the mafia house?


They knew what they were getting into. Same goes for any "civilian contractors" on the Death Star.

Also, I'd like to point out that Randal, while hilariously funny, is a giant moron whose biggest goal in life is working at a convenience store.

 

While I agree that any contractors or otherwise voluntary laborers got what they had coming to them, weren't there, according to an EU source whose name escapes me at the moment, slaves involved in the construction of the Death Star II?

Also, although countless lives were undoubtedly saved by the DS's destruction, if even one innocent sentient being died unwillingly when it blew up, would that be morally acceptable for the alliance?

IMHO, yes, actually.

 

I guess you missed the construction worker in the same scene who brings up the guys who re-shingled the mafia house?


They knew what they were getting into. Same goes for any "civilian contractors" on the Death Star.

Also, I'd like to point out that Randal, while hilariously funny, is a giant moron whose biggest goal in life is working at a convenience store. [/quote]

no i didnt miss that part, but the part that bothers me is the fact that yes i agree, anyone who willingly commits to building the DS deserves to die, but the empire is run by the sith lord, i highly doubt that he would ask people nicely to come and work on his "spacestation" of death...and how is randall an idiot? at least hes actually working...and **** if it came down to it, id wanna sit on my ass all day too and get paid to watch movies...