Clone War trailer

Discussion in 'Orlando, FL' started by JangoFett29, Mar 10, 2002.

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  1. JangoFett29 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    I don't feel that I need to again explain where my feelings come from or why I get so emotionally involved. That would be kind of redundant with the other posts. I was going to respond to the post Sandy left about me being "a moron and a jerk" but I was at the point where it didn't really matter to me the name calling. It seemed to me that that was the negative part of this thread. In my defense however, (and I chose the defense for my own self gratification, lol...not because I feel so strongly about having to defend myself) my comment on about being a "true fan" was not only targeted at those who criticize so often, but those who have gone back since TPM and questioned why they even have enjoyed the OT. I have grown tired of hearing their cries of betrayal. But, I feel based on past and recent comments that my thread has reached its audience. I have had such an effect on someone that they actually considered their appreciation for the OT and questioned why they enjoy or love Star Wars as they do. That is good. So, while the negativity did rear its ugly head, something was accomplished. Does this mean if I ever meet this person at a fan based event that tension is going to be high? Are you serious? If someone can have such high opinions and resolve, they had better have backbone to go along with it. Fear is the path to the darkside. And we all know what fear can lead to.

    Todd
  2. Sandy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2002
    star 2
    Todd,

    Glad I caught this while I was still on line. If my "moron" comment came off as name calling then I apologize because that absolutely was not my intention. I was referencing how I felt you were acting, not how I believed you actually were. Obviously that is entirely my fault for not being more clear.

    Actually, in hindsight, it seems that I hit a nerve early on and should have approached the discussion from a different angle. Your betrayal comment tells me that you've had some bad expereinces along this line. I didn't consider that either, which was another mistake on my part.

    If we meet in person I'd hope it would be with a smile and a handshake. No hard feelings at all here, at least on my part; just a few differences of opinion.

    However, I'd like to continue this debate on a bit more constructive path, since (as I said) you seem like a pretty smart guy. I've already laid out the things I didn't like about the trailer and explained my reservations. What did you see in the trailer that you were excited about? Which parts did you like? Also, what are your feelings about the similarity of scenes in the new trilogy? Does that bother you a bit or do you see that as a strength in the new films?

    Sandy
  3. JediRose Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2001
    star 1
    Has this become a private discussion, or can any one join?

    JRose
  4. Sandy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2002
    star 2
    Open Forum to anyone. What are your thoughts?

    Sandy
  5. JediRose Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2001
    star 1
    Well, I enjoyed the trailer. I've been trying to avoid spoiliers and it was a nice SMALL glimspe into AOTC. It also showed more scenes than Breathing and had more action than Forbiden Love. Thus, the trailers tease you with glimpses of romance, action, and understanding a bit more about Darth Vader.

    The part that stuck with me the most, though, was the part where the Senate voted Palpy "emergency powers." If anything, that will be a major turning point in the prequel trilogy. After all, the Chancellor now has the power to susupend any basic freedoms enjoyed by the citizens of the GFFA. It really chilled me to the core.

    JRose
  6. TheGhoest Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2001
    star 1
    Yep, it looks like ol' George has researched US history. From what it looks like (SPOILERS)







    the Palpatine Emergency act is actually very similar to the acts of Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War. Not to compare the two of course, but some aspects are very similar. For example, seccesion of planets (states) with no immediate threat to the security of the Republic (nation) prompts the senate to vote him emergency powers. However, technically, there is one important difference. Lincoln got the authority for his emergency powers from the constitution, while ol' Palpy goes to the senate.

    Anyway, please don't start a big argument on whether I'm comparing Lincoln to Emperor Palpatine. I'm not. I'm just saying that Lucas (or Hale) has done his research.

    The Ghoest-
  7. Rogue428 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2001
    star 2
    Comparing Lincoln to Palpatine!!

    You have insulted mah honuh suh, I demand satisfaction!

    LOL.

    j/k....interesting point though. BTW, when Lincoln did declare Martial Law in D.C. during the Civil War...many people thought that he was wrong, and that's still a big point of contention among historians.

    Another great point I'm sure Lucas tapped was the way the German National Socialist Party took over in the 30's after the burning of the Reichstagg...and for certain, Caesar's rise to power in Rome when he was granted dictatorial powers by the Senate and became Imperator, Pontifex Maximus. Just some other historical stuff to look at.
  8. Sandy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2002
    star 2
    Mike,

    I'd say you are right on the money with Lucas using the Nazi Party as a guide. The ANH Empire was almost solely based on the WW2 German military. More accurately, it was the late 1940s/1950s movie version of the German military with British accents to replace the cheesy Nazi accents those films normally used -- not that I have a problem with this. The propogandized movies of that era served as a great model for an evil, militaristic society. In ROTJ Lucas threw in elements of the US military since he's a BIG anti-military, semi-reformed Vietnam protestor. I suspect the same mix will hold in the next film. We'll probably see some combination of the US War on Terror and the Nazi takeover of pre-WW2 Germany.


    Rose,

    I have to preface my input with some personal background. A few years ago I was chief of a counter-terrorist unit in Latin America. With that background, and the fact that I'm an ultra-conservative to the core, I had a different reaction to that part of the trailer. When Palpatine got emergency powers and used them to build a new army I immediately said "Good move!" This sort of thing is common around most of the third world and is always very effective and ultimately saves many lives. In most cases, allowing a government to act decisively against insurgents is a good thing. Of course, in the SW universe we know its bad because the guy getting the power is truly twisted and evil. Plus, the rebels in SW are good, honorable, and fairly likable people that have virtually no resemblence to the hard core thugs and murderers that normally compose a rebel group. One thing I have liked about the SW evil empire is that you could count the truly bad characters on one hand. The empire is composed of very honorable people as well. Look at the officers shown in Empire. They are a very respectable group. Even Tarkin's actions are similar to those of a modern miiltary commander fighting against terrorists. Actually, how could you saw anything bad about a character played by Peter Cushing. (That's another plug for you fellow Hammer Film fans out there). The worst thing you can say about the men of the SW Empire is that they follow their orders without reinterpreting them, which is exactly what you want from an effective military force.

    I will be interested to see how AOTCs handles this particular issue.


    Sandy
  9. TheGhoest Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2001
    star 1
    Hmmm, very interesting. I completely agree with your assessment of the Star Wars universe, the good guys are the good guys, ETC...

    However, I classify myself as a ultra-conservative as well, and I had the entirely opposite reaction to Palpatine's words. I kind of lean toward "almost anarchy is better than almost tyranny". However, I also understand your history. I know someone who is on the top of a terrorist groups' assassination list.

    I suppose it's a fine line, and you can be excused for falling on either side.

    The Ghoest-
  10. Sandy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2002
    star 2
    Ghoest,

    Hmmm. Almost Tyranny vs. Almost Anarchy -- very tough choice. Since we already know the outcome, the emergency powers is an obvious mistake in the SW history. A lot of this depends on your perception of the role of government.

    Police states/military dictatoriships by their nature aren't bad. They merely amplify the impact of government leadership. If you have good people in charge, great things happen and people are happy and well protected. If you have bad people in charge, they heighten the misery inflicted by bad leadership on the average guy in the street. I didn't get the chilling effect from the "emergency powers" and "grand new army" statements because that's exactly what I'd expect a responsible leader to do if a threat to my government/society arose. If armed separatists started running around my streets intent on "liberating" me, I'd sure as Hell want the President to send in the troops and if there weren't enough troops to do the job, I'd hope he'd get busy correcting that problem right away.

    As for all this being Palpatine's act to take over the galaxy, I got the distinct impression from TPM that the good senator just simply COULD NOT be the twisted, evil SOB from ESB and ROTJ. This seemed confirmed by the fact that he walked around gaggles of Jedi without being detected, something that didn't match the first trilogy. Knowing Lucas' love for mythology, I leave open the possibility that the Sith Lord is actually a twin brother/cousin-you name it, who has been pulling the senator's (now chancellor's) strings all along. When the time is right, he intends to bump off the good leader and assume his place.

    (Actually, I've enjoyed the conversation in this thread more than the trailer it was about).

    Mike,

    Watched the Space 1999 DVDs this weekend. Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee in those as well. I only know of two roles where Lee wasn't a villian, Space 1999 and as the art critic in Dr. Terror's House of Horrors. In every case, he plays the opposite of Peter Cushing. Since Cushing was a villian in ANH, I presume Lee is a good guy in AOTCs.


    Sandy
  11. Forja-Bingbey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    star 3
    I like your idea, but could Palatine just be a clone of himself. He is the one commissioning all the clones that are being made. Why not use a Force protected clone of yourself to do your dirty work for you. If I was an evil Sith Lord that?s what I would do. Also Lucas has dropped all these hints in TPM about cloning. Why do all of Queen Amidala?s handmaidens look alike? Well, the new script calls for Senator Amidala to have one of her people killed in the assassination attempt instead of her in the very beginning of the movie. Could the person(s) have mistaken her for the real thing? There could be lots of people using clones of themselves to conduct business in the galaxy. The senators of a greedy, squabbling delegation would be my first choice to use them. They?re rich, powerful and more than likely narcissistic enough to do it. This of course is just my feeble attempt to out wit old George. Who the hell knows what he has in store for use in the next two installments. The only thing that I ask is that he doesn?t have an ?I?m your father!? scene in this film. Unless it comes from Watto!
  12. Rogue428 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2001
    star 2
    hehe...Lee will always be either Dracula or Saruman to me. Even in the trailer when he says "You must join me Obi-Wan..." I half expected the next line to be something about the "Nine crossed the river Isen on midsummer's eve, disguised as riders in black."

    Forja-Bingbey:

    You bring up an interesting theory. I've been keeping myself fairly spoiler-free (except for props) so everything that follows here is purely conjecture. But if I read your post right, you're suggesting that Senator Palpatine might be a clone of Darth Sidious? Most curious. But then the clones would have to be not force capable, which would explain why the Jedi (and even Yoda in the trailer) don't sense that they're sitting in front of a really bad guy...but in the expanded Universe...clones clearly are Force cabable (Zahn's books..etc.) and even in TPM, with the introduction of the midichlorians it would seem that they may be tied somewhat genetically...so then someone's clone would have to be just as Force capable as the original was (maybe they wouldn't have the training...but might their Midichlorian counts be the same?)...but then if midichlorians are tied to genetics somehow and that attribute can be cloned....why make clones of Jango Fett (as mentioned in the trailer) and why not build your clone army from Darth Maul...or some uber-Jedi that you can twist to your evil will?

    Hhehe...I can see it now...
    "Do you know how the Sith first came into being? They were Jedi once. Taken by the Dark Side, tortured and mutilated, a ruined terrible form of life. Now, perfected in my fighting Uruk-Hai! Now....whom do you serve?"
    - "Count Saruman!"

    LOL....much better.

    Now, here's a completely other thought. I couldn't help but wonder (as Oscar mugged and robbed poor P.J. and company) that since The Two Towers and AOTC are obviously going to be up against one another for all the technical awards next year. I was wondering what category AOTC might be elligible for. Well one of them that popped into mind was "Best Animated Film". Why THAT you might ask? Well, think of it this way, with most of AOTC shot against a bluescreen, and from what I've seen in the trailer, AOTC may actually include MORE CG animated elements than Shrek and Monsters Inc.? So then what is it? Is it an animated film with live action elements? Or a live film with Animated elements. From what I saw of the trailer, right now, I'd have to say the former...once again we're pushing some interesting ground here...thoughts?

  13. Sandy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2002
    star 2
    Forja,

    I am also relatively spoiler free and would like to stay that way, even if it includes the first minutes of the film. Basically, if its not in the trailers, I don't want to know about it. No offense but in this case, ignorance is bliss. Plus, it helps keep my stupid theories in tact a little while longer.

    Palpatine a clone huh. I hadn't thought of that. Question is, a clone of what? The midiclorians sounded stupid to me from the onset. However, if you were going to make clones, why not make a few thousand of a super-midiclorian guy? Given SW technology, why not multiclone the midiclorians themselves and then pump them into your clone to make super-force users. (Now, you understand why I thought it was a stupid, unbalancing idea).

    Your premise is sound. I hope its not correct. Clones after clones after clones of the same character who gets killed and then reappears gets really old, really quick. I can see new books (or in my case books on tape) coming out in March 2003 about the clone of Darth Vader reappearring and taking over the galaxy, the clone of Palpatine reappearring and building Death Star 3, etc. Herbert did this in the Dune trilogy and it worked because it was only 1 character and was handle very, very well. Since Lucas has stolen so much from Herbert, you probably are in the right track.


    Mike,

    Star Wars as an animated film. It will never happen. As long as one live actor appears on the screen, it will never get to the animated category. Sci-Fi films have always done horribly in the Academy. Lucas is definitely not with the "in crowd" on the left coast.

    Agree with you on the Lee part of the trailer. When he said "Join me, Obi-wan", I had the ESB flashback. Just because its Lee I automatically say "This has to be a trap". I'm really glad to see him back making mainstream films again.

    Here's another prediction. What's the chances of seeing a CG Peter Cushing/younger Tarkin in SW3? Lucas has been holding off USA DVDs for "something special". My modeling group (Wolfpak) has speculated that its to wait for technology to progress far enough to do additional scenes with CG characters that can't be filmed conventionally because they're 20+ years older or have died. Lucas has always tried to Wow everyone with using the latest technology in his films. That would certainly fit the bill. Any thoughts on that?

    Sandy
  14. Rogue428 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2001
    star 2
    I totally agree with you about Lucas having no friends on the Academy. Neither does P.J. they both have established themselves as working outside the Hollywood system and wanting it kept that way. And I'll go one step further and say that we won't ever see a genre film like The Two Towers or AOTC win Best Picture...no matter how good it is. Last time a genre film won was Silence of the Lambs....and that's because most viewers in the Academy didn't consider it a horror movie (which it was), or a mystery (which it was). Of course we've had fantasy movies win in the past (Gladiator)...but they passed as historical dramas (which it wasn't). But I don't think we've reached an age where an in your face fantasy or science fiction film can take Best Picture from a movie about a crippled person...or something else touchy feely. (yes I have a bug up my butt about genre fiction not getting the respect it deserves...that's a whole novel in and of itself).

    I hope he doesn't use CG "real" characters... I just don't think the tech is there yet. I know some Chinese company bought the rights to Bruce Lee's image and intend to make the first feature film with a digitally realized actor starring...but I think other than a gimmick it will get crushed. Final Fantasy is about the best photorealistic characters we've seen to date and they still looked fairly CG. In Blade II, they did fulll body scans of the stars and used "digital stuntmen" to do some rather incredible stuff. Sometimes it worked and was seamless...and sometimes it was painfully obvious. Of course...I'm just learning 3D Max so I'm just a neophyte here and don't really know what I'm talking about.
  15. Sandy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2002
    star 2
    Mike,

    I agree with you RE: CG characters at present BUT Lucas has planned the release after the first trilogy is completed. That's 2005. Figure the release around 2006. The groundwork on Final Fantasy was done in 1999 as I recall, meaning we're already three years beyond that. Figuring you could crank out a good set of CG work in a year with the right team, you're talking about technology that has advanced at least 5 years from Final Fantasy. Compare Final Fantasy to Toy Story 1. Not a really good comparison since they have different styles but Toy Story was considered the frontline of computer animation at that time. I predict that by 1995, you'll be unable to distinguish the difference between CG actors and the real thing without carefully studying the still shots. Of course this brings up scores of moral and legal problems but you get the idea. In theory, he could produce an entirely new set of movies with Luke, Leia, Han Solo etc. without needing anything more than the voiceovers from the actors. By that time, computer speech inflections might be advanced enough that the recordings already existing would suffice to duplicate acceptable speech. Lots of other implications of this sort of thing but I'm remaining focused on the SW element.

    Sandy
  16. Lord_Gita Former TFN FanFilms Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 2000
    star 4
    "I predict that by 1995, you'll be unable to distinguish the difference between CG actors and the real thing without carefully studying the still shots."

    Wasn't 1995 was 7 years ago?
  17. Sandy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2002
    star 2
    Predictions are always more accurate if you make them after the fact!

    Okay, that should have read 2005 not 1995 for all of you proofreaders out there.

    Sandy
  18. Rogue428 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2001
    star 2
    Good point about FF being made in 1999...also last night during the Oscars I think they mentioned 5 years production time for Shrek. So you're probably right. Combinations of Motion Capture and rendering tech will make things better very quickly.

    Your theory also makes sense due to something I remember seeing on Biography of George Lucas. He made some comment to an animator that he was lucky because he could just tell his story and didn't have to deal with the actors. Interesting comment in light of your speculation.
  19. TheGhoest Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2001
    star 1
    VERY interesting thread. I can't contribute a lot more though, at least right now.

    Back to my posts really quickly, I don't think there's a winner between the Almost Anarchy vs. Almost Tyranny part. I just recalled the latter part of the Book of Judges in the Bible. Ugh. Talk about anarchy...

    Human nature being what it is, tyranny happens a lot more than anarchy (the only full anarchy I can think of is in Judges. The French Revoltion could count, but they always had a system of government that was near tyrannical, though it was controlled by a mob.

    I love the cloning speculation though.



    By the way, do you the George will clone himself? ;)

    The Ghoest-
  20. COPAZIE Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 2
    OK guys I've been reading this thread for a while. Content to merely observe for the most part, but since you've brought up Final Fantasy, I'll have to chime in...

    is anyone else outraged at the fact that Final Fantasy was not even nominated for the Animated feature category? I feel that it is, by far, technically, asthetically, and intellectually superior to either Shrek of Monsters Inc... and to have Jimmy Neutron nominated instead was simply a grotesque insult.

    Don't get me wrong, I loved Shrek and Monsters Inc.. but the quality level of Final Fantasy is just beyond comparison. As a computer animator myself, I can fully apreciate the amount of time and work that was put into that film. Squaresoft seriously raised the bar for computer animation. It's like comparing the primitive silent, black and white cartoons of the early 1900's to "Beauty and the Beast."

    I believe that Final Fantasy was Oscar Caliber material, and for it not even to be recognized with a nomination? I consider that to be a grave injustice...

    I know this rant was off subject, but I had to vent somewhere.
  21. Rogue428 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2001
    star 2
    Totally agree with you about Final Fantasy. But I just thought it wasn't nominated because it wasn't released during this Oscar cycle. But I could be wrong, I don't remember when it was released.

    Here's some thoughts on this subject... This country still can't grasp the fact that not all animation (and animated film) is for children.

    Final Fantasy I would lump in with the range of Anime, because of the themes it address and the anime-borrowed storyline. The only Anime I've heard of ever winning any accolades was Princess Mononoke (which was heavily altered before release over here)...


  22. Sandy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2002
    star 2
    Mike,

    Keep in mind its not the country that decides the Oscars but the freakish lot in Hollywood. The country could accept animation as an adult theme (no porn references intended) and the movies still could be rejected by the "cultured" group on the left coast.

    After thinking about it a bit, I really would have a hard time classifying computer effects as animation. Under this idea, everything from King Kong to Temple of Doom could be given the animated movie label. There's no firm boundary when you get under the 100% animated guideline.

    I went back and watched the Clone Wars trailer again. I was surprised at just how much of the animation was preproduction shots. I can't believe Lucas is going to allow the rough bump maps on the ball landers (forever known to me as the 2001 Aries Moon Lander since that's where he stole the design from). The rendering on the troops was obviously a rough draft as were a few other battle shots, although the close-up of the ball appearred to be a final as did the city chase shots. It looks like he's rushing to get this one finished before the premiere as well.

    On the whole, I see this as a bad trend for movies. Historically, movies are made and then go through a built in advertisement period before the premiere. Lucas has started doing all this concurrently. Sooner or later, someone is going to start planning a flexible budgeting process in which a movie is advertised while it is being made and then given varying levels of effort depending on the interest generated by the advertising. If there is low interest, the studio will go with the cheaper plan, and if there is high interest, they will dedicate their top people to make this the blockbuster. To some degree they already do this on television shows. Computer animators and set designers are swapped to different shows fairly regularly depending on the mid-season ratings review. This trend has previously stayed out of the movie industry simply because the studios haven't been able to get any near realtime feedback because the films were completed before public interest could be measured. Sequels were always altered due to the success of the previous film but a sequel, by its very nature, means that the previous film was a hit.

    A flexible effort methodology would have destroyed some of my favorite films and ensured that some of the classics would have never become classics. Quite a few films are never appreciated until years after they've been shelved.

    Any thoughts on this -- Conspiracy theory or a valid observation?


    Sandy
  23. Forja-Bingbey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    star 3
    Figuring that this is suppose to be about the ?Clone Wars? trailer, that is what I will write about. Not Shrek!

    So far my favorite shot has got to be Mace deflecting shots as he makes a beeline towards Jango Fett. I don?t know how many people have noticed the Red Royal Guards in the couple of shots in Palpatine?s chambers. Good old sneaky George has them flush against the wall, very reminiscent of their positions in Return Of The Jedi of course. If you get the chance to watch the trailer in the theatre, watch it in the front row. Then try focusing your attention on certain elements of the screen that are of no or little importance. Trust me, you will be amazed! I fortunately get to see the trailer quite often seeing as I work in a theatre. I urge everyone to try this at least once. Nothing is more fun.

    As I was watching the ?Forbidden Love? trailer last night, I noticed that in the first shot of Anakin meditating, it occurred to me how great this shot really was. That here we have the young man who grows up to be Darth Vader with his back to us in deep contemplation. It reminded me of all the classic shots of Vader stalking the bridge of the Imperial ships in The Empire Strikes Back. With the deep breathing playing over the this image, I get chills just thinking of what is come in Episode III.

    Hopefully this will start some folks to come forward and talk about their thoughts and feelings about not just the ?Clone Wars? trailer, but all of them.

    May The Force Be With You.
  24. Rogue428 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2001
    star 2
    by the way, when I brought up the fact about animation, what I was trying to point out is that in some ways AOTC is no different than Shrek. Except AOTC models and sets were made to look real, and in Shrek or Johnny rocket, or Toy Story, they are stylized and made to look animated...but the same software and methods are used for both. (generally speaking)

    Actually. the "Forbidden Love" trailer was my favorite. It showed that George was still first and foremost a filmmaker and could tell a story. With the "Clone Trailer" (which I liked by the way) it's almost like...hey look at all this cool CGI that my slave animators came up with! shouldn't you be screaming WOW? I got a very disjointed feeling that ironically reminded me of a lot of fanfilms where there isn't a whole lot of plot and its a demo reel for FX....(SARCASM ALERT: I'm of course not talking about my stuff...my stuff is as good as the OT...LOL).

    But with the "Forbidden Love" trailer what I liked most about it, is that it starts out with a tame whitebread teen lovestory schtick. Natalie is amazingly beautiful in every shot. Hayden is as handsome as he possibly could be...and then about 3/4s of the way through the "rejection"...'We'd be living a lie' line from Portman (who delivered it very coldly...if I was the guy dating her...my heart would have just broken...that's the old "maybe we should start seeing other people" tone of voice...then we realize all is not well in paradise and Hayden delivers that awesome "Someday I'll be the greatest Jedi ever." which is really ominous because we all know what is going to happen. I am very very interested in how George does Anakin's fall from grace.
  25. Sandy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2002
    star 2
    Wow, stinging chastisement by Forja -- even rated an exclaimation point. What's up with that?


    Mike,

    Totally agree with the Clone Wars being a CG ad rather than a good display of the story. I have to admit, the "I'll be the greatest Jedi" followed by Anakin's ride across the desert with the Duel of the Fates music kicking in is a very nice illusion. It shows a lot of rage without throwing in a lot of action. I thought that was very well done. I still gotta go with the Mystery Trailer through. The "they came out of nowhere just before dawn" (quoting from memory which may be wrong) is an instant attention getter.

    I get the impression that there really won't be a fall from grace. I haven't seen anything indicating Anakin was ever graceful. In TPM he was a kid that nobody on the Jedi council wanted trained and then everyone but Yoda said go ahead for no easily understandable reason. In AOTCs he just seems like a punk. You first have to be "in grace" before you can fall from it. I'm still looking for Palpatine to "fall from grace". I'm not convinced that the Senator/Chancellor we've seen is the gutt churning Sith Lord. I still hold with a prediction of those two being discintly different characters played by the same actor. I'm looking for the scene where the good Chancellor realizes he's been played for a fool and then deposed by the Sith Lord who assumes his identity. (Probably won't happen but it makes for a nice explaination for another couple of months).


    Sandy
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