Lit Clone Wars Continuity Discussion (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by sabarte, May 12, 2008.

  1. Ulicus Lit'ari

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    Personally, and not factoring in the fact that we only learnt what ghosting actually entailed many years after HttE, I think he was spinning Luke a line. It is Obi-Wan, after all. But I'm also content to think that the ghosted Jedi isn't perfectly in step with the will of the Force, but rather in step enough that the process of dissolution is incredibly slowed in comparison to the typical person or Jedi.

    Either way, as Qui-Gon says in the RotS novel, it can be achieved only through selflessness, not greed, and involves retaining one's influence while actually being one with the Force. Not holding off becoming one with the Force.
    Last edited by Ulicus, Nov 12, 2012
  2. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    Kenobi had a selfless purpose, but once that selflessness was achieved (Luke becoming a Jedi) then Kenobi's reason was gone and he had to move on. I don't think he was or ever intended to babysit Luke forever. That, I think, bridges the two positions.
  3. instantdeath Force Ghost

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    I'm referring more to the concept of a soul in general rather than its relevance in Star Wars; it's a concept that, by its very nature, is abstract and speculative, so I think it can be difficult to say whether droids truly have "souls" in the context of the universe. I really don't believe in any concept of a "soul", though I do think we're probably meant to believe that they do exist in the SW universe.

    I like this, actually. Obi-Wan is often referred to as quite stubborn... fun to think that he denies the will of the Force itself, in a manner, by remaining to help Luke for as long as he did.

    I can't express how much it annoyed me that Anakin's affinity for machines was downplayed as much as it was in the PT, particularly for one who is, as you mentioned, destined to become part machine himself.

    The large emphasis on droids and "droid rights" is actually a plot element I miss from Marvel Star Wars. That, and hoojibs.
  4. Ulicus Lit'ari

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    @GrandAdmiralJello

    Sure, I'd just hesitate to rule out the possibility of his ever appearing again. Especially if there's an open bar. ;)

    @instantdeath

    Denying the will of the Force is not the Jedi way. It's not "fun", it's practically blasphemous. :p
    Last edited by Ulicus, Nov 12, 2012
  5. Zorrixor Chosen One

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    Food for thought: do trees have midi-chlorians?

    They're organic, sure, but it's not like they have "flesh" in the same way. They've alive, and in magic space biology you get talking trees like T'ra Saa, but... if you're going to compare a tree's connection to the Force with a fish, it's not that different to comparing a robot with a human, as both exhibit their own particular similarities and differences.

    It seems unfair that consciousness (robots) is less important than what you're made of (plants).
    So his denial of the will of the Force was actually the will of the Force anyway. [face_laugh]
    Equally, I was annoyed when Luke didn't have a hand when he went beyond shadows in Abyss (come to think of it, was he still one-handed in Apocalypse?). I'd much rather have seen a character who didn't have an arm -- and didn't use a prosthetic -- get their arm back beyond shadows.

    After all, it's not like Anakin Skywalker's Force ghost was a floating dismembered torso.
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Nov 12, 2012
  6. instantdeath Force Ghost

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    @Ulicus

    Obi-Wan seems to bend the Jedi Code almost as much as Anakin does :p. At least in "blinding himself" to Anakin and Padme.

    I don't like to think that everything in SW is governed directly by the "will of the Force", though, with the Force serving as the Hand of God rather than an omnipotent energy field. An oddly fatalistic perspective to a series originally all about the small numbered Rebels defeating the much more powerful Empire through force of will and through the power of individual choice (in Anakin's redemption). I don't really think that the Force was destined to balance itself out: Anakin had to do that. You could certainly argue that Anakin himself was the Force's way of righting itself, but it still ultimately came down to his own personal choice. The fact that Palpatine and Plagueis were able to alter the balance of the Force that much by themselves, to me, says that the will of the Force is far from anything resembling predestination.

    If the very existence of Force ghosts is not denying the Force, it's certainly a very blunt denial of death. And hey, if ROTS had a discernible message, it's that the Jedi and their most sacred doctrine needed to change.
  7. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    Midi-chlorians were inspired in part by mitochondria, and planets certainly have those, so I see no reason why they wouldn't have midis either. There's nothing about plants that excludes the possibility of having symbiotic lifeforms running around inside them.
  8. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    "Always in motion is the future".
  9. StarWarsFan91 Force Ghost

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    That's not an opinion, that's fact. George even said droids don't have souls. It's stupid for some fans to say, LA LA LA GEORGE I CANT HEAR YOU and then create their own fanon proceed to think that droids can have souls.

    Now do i know what kind of souls organics have in star wars? Or how they are created (maybe the force has something to do with that)? No i don't, all i know is somehow people in star wars have souls and droids do not.
  10. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    In some stories, a being can be sentient without having a soul. Droids (normally) might be along those lines.
  11. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Fan91, there are Force-sensitive sentient crystals in the SW universe. They may not have been Lucas' idea, but they're there and they're canon. Do they have souls, in your estimation?
  12. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

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    Where did George say that? I see it on Wookieepedia without a source, and I've been searching the internet for the last 10 minutes. All I can find is people quoting Wookieepedia.
  13. StarWarsFan91 Force Ghost

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    The page on the wookipedia on droids just says his saying that was in one television documentary. I don't know which one though.
  14. Dr. Steve Brule Force Ghost

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    Wasn't it in Empire of Dreams? I vaguely remember him saying it there, but I could very well be misremembering.
  15. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    The only thing iffier than using the word "fact" when expressing one's position on souls is doing so without a verified source. o_O
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  16. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    I think I found it... trying to see if there's an existing clip of it online.
  17. StarWarsFan91 Force Ghost

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    I don't know if these crystals have the same type of soul that humans can have in the GFFA, but there is a possibility that they can have some variety of soul, because they are not man-made artificial constructions like droids are. Perhaps them being apart of nature is one of the reason why they can potentially have souls, because the force exists in all living/natural things.

    But i think it depends on how you define a soul.

    The spiritual soul that some believe in, which is spiritual thing that exists within a body, that can not be seen or touched, but somehow is apart of someone, and can take who they are, to the afterlife after their body dies.

    Or what about the more metaphorical soul?

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/soul

    But whatever the type of soul George is referring to, i don't believe a droid has any type of soul.
    Last edited by StarWarsFan91, Nov 12, 2012
  18. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    @Barriss_Coffee, @CooperTFN, & Brule: It's in the other OT Documentary, the "Characters of Star Wars."



    edit: Argh, I hate you JC! Go to the 4:30 timestamp.
    Last edited by GrandAdmiralJello, Nov 12, 2012
  19. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Well, it's a shame that guy doesn't own Star Wars anymore, huh? [face_mischief]
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  20. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    The canon formerly known as G-canon.
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  21. Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus

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    Now known as W[alt]-canon.
  22. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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  23. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

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    They took my franchise!!! They took it right out of my hands!!!!
  24. StarWarsFan91 Force Ghost

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    We have to go back.......

    before WAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLTTTTTTTTTT DISNEEEEEEEEY took Lucasfilm.

    Also,

    Have you seen my EU?


    They are not taking my EU.
    Last edited by StarWarsFan91, Nov 12, 2012
  25. Ulicus Lit'ari

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    EDIT: I'm a moron. Post is below.
    Last edited by Ulicus, Nov 13, 2012
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