Discussion in 'Literature' started by sabarte, May 12, 2008.
"Always in motion is the future".
That's not an opinion, that's fact. George even said droids don't have souls. It's stupid for some fans to say, LA LA LA GEORGE I CANT HEAR YOU and then create their own fanon proceed to think that droids can have souls.
Now do i know what kind of souls organics have in star wars? Or how they are created (maybe the force has something to do with that)? No i don't, all i know is somehow people in star wars have souls and droids do not.
In some stories, a being can be sentient without having a soul. Droids (normally) might be along those lines.
Fan91, there are Force-sensitive sentient crystals in the SW universe. They may not have been Lucas' idea, but they're there and they're canon. Do they have souls, in your estimation?
Where did George say that? I see it on Wookieepedia without a source, and I've been searching the internet for the last 10 minutes. All I can find is people quoting Wookieepedia.
The page on the wookipedia on droids just says his saying that was in one television documentary. I don't know which one though.
Wasn't it in Empire of Dreams? I vaguely remember him saying it there, but I could very well be misremembering.
The only thing iffier than using the word "fact" when expressing one's position on souls is doing so without a verified source.
I think I found it... trying to see if there's an existing clip of it online.
I don't know if these crystals have the same type of soul that humans can have in the GFFA, but there is a possibility that they can have some variety of soul, because they are not man-made artificial constructions like droids are. Perhaps them being apart of nature is one of the reason why they can potentially have souls, because the force exists in all living/natural things.
But i think it depends on how you define a soul.
The spiritual soul that some believe in, which is spiritual thing that exists within a body, that can not be seen or touched, but somehow is apart of someone, and can take who they are, to the afterlife after their body dies.
Or what about the more metaphorical soul?
But whatever the type of soul George is referring to, i don't believe a droid has any type of soul.
@CooperTFN, & Brule: It's in the other OT Documentary, the "Characters of Star Wars."
edit: Argh, I hate you JC! Go to the 4:30 timestamp.
Well, it's a shame that guy doesn't own Star Wars anymore, huh?
The canon formerly known as G-canon.
Now known as W[alt]-canon.
They took my franchise!!! They took it right out of my hands!!!!
We have to go back.......
before WAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLTTTTTTTTTT DISNEEEEEEEEY took Lucasfilm.
Have you seen my EU?
They are not taking my EU.
EDIT: I'm a moron. Post is below.
Man can do what he wills, but cannot will what he wills -- Arthur Schopenhauer
EDIT: Actually, you've side-tracked me. I'm not talking about everything being governed by the will of the Force but referring to the fact that the Jedi way, specifically, is about surrendering to the will of the Force. It's pretty much their guiding principle, so the idea that the height of Jedi enlightenment would involve denying the Force's will is anathema to me.
Of course. There is no death, there is the Force. It's part of the Jedi Code, and everything.
Opinions can be true.
George said Luke never got married and the Emperor never got cloned. This is Lit.
Imagine what you'll know tomorrow.
Now, more than ever before, we can look towards George Lucas's veiw of Star Wars and thumb our noses at it. To me he just gave away his rights to G-Canon
That silliness out of the way I truly don't understand how people can look towards the fictional universe and proclaim "this can't be" or "it doesn't work that way in the real world!" In a fictional universe its absolutly possible for a robot to have a soul, for a robot to be sentient, and for people to move things with the power of their minds. Imagination has no limits.
What I don't think is well explained is why some droids should be considered sentient while others are not. How does this happen? Better software, or what?
Yes and no, I suppose. They obviously need a certain sophistication or they're not more sentient than an amoeba, but I-5YQ seems to suggest that in addition to the raw robotic "grey matter", they also need a "mutation" in the sense of a glitch that causes them to violate their programming and become a liberated intelligence, not ruled entirely by logic.
This discussion actually reminds me of an article I read last year from some scientists who were talking about whether or not "robot rights" will become a real issue after computers advance to a certain level. To paraphrase, I think they were basically pointing out we're not monkeys anymore, and were speculating what "counts" as a consciousness that's worth protecting, so pretty much confronting the same sort of issues we're talking about here, i.e. are we special because we're able to think for ourselves, or just because we're part of the human species? Which sort of parallels the question of whether all things, organic or not, are part of the Force, or if organic beings can forever point at machines and consider themselves privileged, while I-5YQ and C-3PO are just doomed for the scrapheap as tools.
I just tried to "like" Uli's post. Usually it just works. This time I got taken to an entirely separate page asking if I was sure I wanted to like it. Be careful, Uli, Lit is out to get you...
Also, in response to
Other people have addressed whether or not what George says really does matter (Wookiee Jedi! Wheeee!), but let's pretend you're right and Lucas' statement that droids don't have souls is taken as canon for the EU? The fact that Lucas said droids don't have souls doesn't make it any less an opinion that not having a soul means one is "not truly alive" and therefore "not people". I mean, quite aside from the fact my instinct is that you're arguing from a broadly populist, western, Christian perspective in a fictional universe that George acknowledges owes a lot what he's taken from populist, eastern Buddhism, a cucumber's alive - and we know plant life exists in the Force too - but I'm pretty sure it's not people.
No. It can't be.
"It looks like you're trying to like a post by Ulicus. Is everything alright? What day is today? Do you require a sedative?"