Discussion in 'Literature' started by sabarte, May 12, 2008.
I think trying to determine what adds anything to the EU is a subjective waste of time.
You know what didn't give us new planets (at least nothing I can recall)? Legacy. You know what didn't give us new species? Mindor.
I fail to see the correlation.
Those "rock aliens" in the wreckage of the planet? I don't recall reading about them before.
Still, I believe Coop's point stands, regardless of the example.
True- adding new stuff may be less important than good characterization and writing.
Yeah, I was sure I'd be contradicted the second I said that, but you take my meaning.
There isn't a correlation and no one said there was.
I never even made mention of what a correlation could be in response to. Or what the outcome of this correlation was. I never said "products that don't add to X = Y". I never once said that. Please do not put words in my mouth.
It was merely brought up how the show hasn't added much, and outside of a few memorable things, as pretty much been void of adding anything to the EU.
So I was just going with that and discussing what the show *DID* add. I wasn't inferring, referring, implying, adding, trolling, subtracting, dividing, multiplying, or making correlations, and I was least of all not putting words in others mouths nor was I being rude, discourteous, or using edits, or being snarky by wording when pointing out the species of an alien to others.
But if we are going to discuss the merits of if something should add to the overall feel of the universe. I would say, something as suitable and geared towards adding to the EU like the TCW show is capable of - and the fact that it's failed at doing so, is definitely an overall minus for things, all things considered. You bring up Mindor as an example of something that didn't add a new species. No, it didn't, you are correct - unless it did and I haven't bothered to look it up on Wookiepedia, but I know nothing stands out to me that it did - BUT, in Mindor's defense; 1) it's a 300~ page novel vs. a 5-season TV show, 2) this wasn't a typical novel. It didn't "expand" the timeline, it was a story that "filled in". Similar to Plageuis. We knew a framework of Mindor pre-Mindor and Mindor told the story of the blurb we knew. Now, as to your other example, Legacy. This is a different case, and its far more similar to TCW than Mindor in. Legacy was a 54(55? 56?) issue comic. It's a comic, so its far more visual than Mindor, so closer to TCW in that aspect as well. Now, did it add any new planets? I honestly don't know, I stopped reading it after Vector and I lost all sorts of interest especially considering I was weak on Legacy before that to begin with. So without consulting sources, I couldn't tell you or not if Legacy added any new planets. But I do know it added quite a bit of other stuff, technology, characters, species, etc.
TCW is what, a five-season show, of 18-24 episodes per season, meaning (roughly averaging at 20 episodes per season) a 100 episode show, at 20 minutes an episode, that's 2000 minutes worth of television that it's delivered. When the sum total of that can be dropped down to only a few memorable things, of ~15 at best (for *ALL* of the categories above, planets/characters/ideas/force groups/philosophies/religions/technology/vehicles/starships/droids/etc.), and this is a direct source straight from Lucas so it even has the ability to flat-out ignore EU or re-shape EU if it wants to (unlike Mindor/Legacy) so it has ultimate control over itself, that's a sad indication. The fact that you need to stretch a bit to find applicable ways to not view this as a bad thing is a bit laughable.
I've seen every episode minus maybe 5-6 episodes from S1/S2. I've read about 20 issues of Legacy and the 1 Mindor novel, and I would say that the 20 issues of Legacy and 1 Mindor novel added a lot more depth to the EU as a whole than the Lucas directly ran TCW of 2000~ minutes.
Opinions vary, which was the point of my comment about this being a waste of time.
If you're looking to make some definitive list of what "actually adds to the EU", you're not going to get it, because you won't get anywhere near a consensus on what "actually adds to the EU".
But, since I'm bored, I'll come up with a list.
Ahsoka Tano, Rex, Fives, Echo, Krell, Rush Clovis, Darts D'Nar, Derrown, Lok Durd, Steela Gerrera, Mar Tuuk, Riff Tamson, Talzin, Latts Razzi, the young Jedi kids, Savage Oppress, Cad Bane, Hondo Ohnaka, etc etc etc.
That's not even counting expansion on characters like Ventress, Yularen, Plo Koon, etc.
Mortis, Lotho Minor (first in TCW book, but I'm counting it), Lola Sayu, Kaliida Nebula (nebula, but counting), Raxus, Rishi moon, Rugosa, Toydaria, etc.
There are several more that have given us our first visual look at the planet.
Electro-proton bomb, thermal shields, the darksaber (black lightsaber)
Original Vehicles and Starships:
Arquitens-class light cruiser, Balutar-class swoop, BTL-B Y-Wing, Corona-class armed frigate (flying saucer), Droch-class boarding ship, Eta-class shuttle, Vulture's Claw (Gha Nachkt's ship), the Twilight (for a moment this ship felt like Anakin's Millennium Falcon), the stealth ship, the Halo (Sugi's ship), Starhawk speeder bikes, "super tanks", Trandoshan floating fortress, T-6 shuttle, Jedi jumpspeeder, Zygerrian slave ship, etc etc etc
Belugan, Cosian, Diathim, Faust, Frenk, Lurmen, Kyuzo, Moogan, Terrellian Jango Jumpers, Ming Po, Kage, Khramboan, Harch...
I think that's more than 15. You can say what you want about them, but this stuff has been added to the EU, and I like quite a bit of it.
Speaking for myself, seeing Monument Plaza on screen was one of my favorite Star Wars moments ever. Yeah, they added the restaurant-y things from another McQuarrie sketch into it so it didn't look the way we always envisioned it, but I didn't care so much. It was great seeing one of the most iconic locations in the EU on the screen.
So here we have an example of a movie planet with a portrayal that damages continuity, and yet is still awesome.
Does TCW still leave room for that clone uprising on Kamino that was mentioned in one of the novels or comics a while ago?
It happens after the Clone Wars
Yeah, the Kaminoan Uprising (as depicted in Battlefront 2 and referenced in Sacrifice) takes place at least a decade after the end of the Clone Wars.
That's the one that involves Pellaeon, right?
I don't remember any ships being part of it in Battlefront II, even ones hovering in the background like on some maps, but that would actually be a good retcon. Even if no major ships took part in the uprising I'm sure the ground troops still needed to be transported there somehow.
Wasn't Pelly's "early clones" comment a reference to spaarti clones? I don't think that the clones who rose up on Kamino had "clone madness" or anything of that sort.
Finally saw this episode.
Nice 40 jours dans le désert homage. Makes me miss Moebius even more. Maybe, as commented before in this thread, the multiple suicide references aren't that appropriate for a Cartoon Network show, but then again this show has never had to clear who its target audience is.
What about the Morgukai clones in the war?
I'm assuming this was directed at me, but I'm honestly not sure where half of it is even coming from.
I_L: not familiar with those, alas. My knowledge of the actual Clone Wars is very appalling since most of the books/comics came out in the years that I was pretty sick of the EU and spent most of my days pining for the Empire...
...actually, not sure how that's any different from today.
True, but even when the show is being more "adult" it's rarely this blatant. Then again, when I was catching up on the show earlier this year I was actually shocked at how often they just killed people on stage. Maybe it's just a product of growing up in the early 90s, when Batman: TAS was the most violent thing on children's TV and yet that show never killed people on screen...
I've noticed when you make replies it generally has to have a snarky attitude to it Cooper. In the very bottom quote, you could have just said, "Krell is a Besalisk, like Dex, from AOTC." (I even said that exact same thing in a previous post in this thread). There was no need to try and have the up-and-superior attitude like you do with your reply and say "From, you know, that one movie" with a link. A simple statement of connecting Krell to Dex to AOTC would have been perfectly fine. I'm sorry at the time of my asking if Krell was a new alien species or not that I had forgotten Dex, an insignificant character in the lore of SW with 17000+ characters, even if he was in a movie, albeit possibly the worst of the six current movies of the franchise, in a very small role.
Your other comment, about the correlations, and what-not, putting words in my mouth, assuming I mean to diss TCW instead of just discuss, etc, it's all very unwarranted.
It existed a while before Legacy, but just never appeared until then. So, similar to TCW being the first depiction of Umbara.
That's the oldest planet ever.
Note my reply to Arawn above. I am disagreeing with his suggestion. I did so in a teasing manner, and with a statement that, while not literally true, effectively communicates--or would to most people here--the reason I don't regard Had Abbadon as technically being a "new" planet.
The thing you are taking offense to is my personality. I make jokes, none of which are at the personal expense of other forumers, and most people seem to be okay with that. Arawn (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is probably not angry with me right now, and has not assigned nonexistent subtext to my comment in order to justify that anger. If you're going to see it as an existential insult every time I contradict or disagree with you, you should probably take that up with the mods.
I think perhaps it's not a wise decision to be snarky or in a condescending manner to brand new members of a forum, those who would not know you or be availed of themselves to your massive wit and humorous asides.
Sigh. Alright guys, let's step back here. Nobody's going to win the fight of who wronged who more, and it's not really worth arguing over anyway.
Let's just move on.