Lit Clone Wars Continuity Discussion (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by sabarte, May 12, 2008.

  1. Something_Exile Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2012
    Episode was mostly entertaining, overall much, much better than the past episode though it started quite slow. Wasn't necessarily the best place to have a mid-season break.
    Gregor was awesome as expected. This show really is at its best when it focuses on the clones, Gregor was no exception. So many amazing nods people have pointed out; I loved the Malachor reference since Kotor2 will always be one of my favorite games. Combined with the Republic Commando homage, another of my absolute favorite games, this was a winning element. The HUD was fantastic. Glad to hear that Gregor may be back, though not quite impressed with yet another example of Filoni constantly telling us what's coming and spoiling tension. Remember Ima-Gun Di?

    One major problem I had was Gregor's sudden love for the Republic. I get it was his returning memories, but when he stood up to the mustache-twirling level of evil Sullustan about no longer being a slave and being a soldier, I was a bit "Eh?". One of the things that's so interesting about the clones is that they are essentially slaves. I like the idea that it was a contributing factor to the discrediting of the Jedi in the galaxy's eyes. And then TCW actually hasn't ignored this idea overall, like with The Deserter episode. But the whole "I'm not a slave, I'm a soldier of the Republic" just didn't do it for me. It made me feel sorry for Gregor, which may well have been the intention, but I think the whole thing went a bit too far in glorifying the Republic and the military. I guess the episodes aren't really long enough for Gregor to have a hard time going from being essentially free to being a soldier/slave again sadly.

    Also, I was quite disappointed with Borkus turning out to be so villainous. I really liked the idea of him actually trying to save Gregor, having found a wounded soldier with no memory, given him a job and kept his armor hidden so he didn't go back to a war where he would get killed. Could have been an interesting perspective on the war and the way the clones are essentially bred to die. But instead Borkus devolved into a cackling villain. Seriously, that line where he shouts that they would all be begging for a job, before starting to maniacally laugh like Dr Robotnik was so ridiculous.

    EDIT:
    Also, I was just checking the Wook and saw that the Maul/Mandalore arc is only 3 episodes long. Is this a thing? We get four episodes for everything except for Maul, who should arguably be the biggest character this season?
    Last edited by Something_Exile, Jan 6, 2013
  2. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    The first episode of the Season was originally also part of the Maul arc they just fired it off way to early I a plan too utterly confuse us. [face_plain]
    Last edited by Gorefiend, Jan 6, 2013
  3. Dr. Steve Brule Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 4
    Full Throttle and Day of the Tentacle, yes. But personally I'm rather upset by the fact that they felt the need to represent MI with by far the weakest entry of the series...
  4. Something_Exile Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2012
    I didnt
    I knew the episode was aired out of order but I didn't realize it was meant to be a part of the arc, thought it was separate. So seriously only 4 episodes for Maul that we know of? When they brought him back, despite the fact that it was more than a bit silly, I at least thought we were going to get a serious chunk of story and was actually looking forward to seeing a rogue version of the Maul that could have been, but if this it for now that's insane. Why bring him back and not use him? I actually like Savage too, thought he was surprisingly entertaining and engaging as a character but it doesn't seem as if anything is going to come of that story now.

    Such a waste. Though I hope to proven wrong.
  5. HEDGESMFG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2010
    star 3
    So I've now had the chance to read all of Shadow Conspiracy. I must say that Jason Fry did an excellent job taking the major events of this rather significant arc, and tying them in with minor retcons that puts the entire nature of the Mandalorian conflict in perspective. Without spoiling anything too deep, I will mention some things the novelization detail that the episode likely will not.

    1. Satine's father was a former warrior, and if I recall correctly, clan leader. The clan wars are mentioned numerous times, and I believe he may have encouraged Satine to join the new Mandalorians based on the brutality of their former conflict.
    2. Clan Vizsla is mentioned by name, and their involvement in the clan wars is also referenced, I believe.
    3. Jason Fry very explicitly states that parts of Mandalore have been rendered uninhabitable, while the rest of the planet remain intact (complete with references to greenery, rolling hills, and other more typical Mandalore features). Keldabe and Sundari can co-exist with no real issue.
    4. Without spoiling anything specific, there's plenty of room left amidst the ending for Spar to step in and become Mandalore at some point later on. Just about 'everything' changes in this arc.
    5.
    Show Spoiler
    To give you another detail on this, Bo-Katan tells Obi-Wan to call in the Republic after the civil war erupts on Mandalore. The episodes end shortly after this, as she helps him escape. I'm sure a forced occupation attempt by the Republic could easily push the populous to follow Spar, rejoin the Separatists, and form the Super Commandos.

    6. Lots of fun Maul EU references, such as his memory of wiping out Black Sun's leadership in the previous EU material, and a clear reminder that Sidious only wished them to be crippled, not destroyed.

    That's all I can think of for now.
    Last edited by HEDGESMFG, Jan 7, 2013
  6. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    I like how the Great Clan Wars clearly grows out of the Mandalorian Civil War. The Death Watch win, and make holy hell on Mandalore.

    More food for the 'Battle of Mandalore Pre-TPM' Wookieepedia article to become canon ;)
    darthcaedus1138 likes this.
  7. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    They are Mandalorians - they properly had several Battles of Mandalore a month just do to stuff like cattle raids, gambling debts and marriage disputes. :p
  8. General Immodet Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    I still think the whole Mandalorian-thing is a big mess.
    At some point, Durge banded together with some rogue Jedi to defeat Mandalore. Was this at the same time the Jedi and the Juridicals assaulted Mandalore and Mandalore turned into a white dessert?
    And then, there is the whole Spar issue...
    They could start by explaining how Pre Vizla and Tor Vizla are related.
  9. General Immodet Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    Jason Fry is a good man. He tries to combine all EU sources that ever existed.
    The only problem is even good authors such as him will not be able to figure out how TCW fits in the TCW shown in novels and comic books.
    Even people such as Leland Chee and Daniel Wallace are also trying to fix things, but it seems a mission impossible to me.
    Zeta1127 likes this.
  10. Esg Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Durge did that hundreds of years before that. He was caught up in some conspiracy to start a war between the Mando's and the Sith during the New Sith wars
    Last edited by Esg, Jan 9, 2013
  11. General Immodet Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    Well, it is a bit confusing when it did take place, don't you think?
  12. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    The two conflicting accounts of the Clone Wars are so contradictory, that I am surprised that anyone, but those who disliked the Clone Wars multimedia project in the first place, can accept TCW.
  13. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    No. The Republic's attack on Mandalore, known as the "Mandalorian Excision", took place in 738 BBY. Durge's strike against the rogue Mand'alor didn't take place until centuries after that, around 100 BBY.

    Jason Fry's already established that they're members of the same clan.
  14. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    And to continue Mia's note, said Mandalore genocided the Ithull too.

    And I also concur - a battle of Mandalore and forced occupation by the Republic is likely to push them towards the CIS. It's all ironing out slowly.
    Zorrixor and Mia Mesharad like this.
  15. Malachi108 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2009
    star 3
    As of 100th episode, the total running time of TCW movie and Seasons 1-4 is already more than twice longer than that of the Episodes 1-6 put together. Such large amount of material does not get simply ignored or deemed non-canon. Like it or not, TCW is here to stay.

    That's not to say it can't be reconciled with original Clone Wars stories. Jason Fry's works and Essential Reader companion already cleared up most of the big issues.
  16. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5

    not everybody acts like the feuding Hutts :p
    Mia Mesharad likes this.
  17. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    There is no reconciling things for me, because I am perfectly happy with the Clone Wars multimedia project and feel like everything I like about the Clone Wars is being destroyed by George Lucas and LFL's belief that they are entitled to do whatever the heck they want.
  18. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
    One word: perspective.
    Zorrixor likes this.
  19. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    That must be it, because I see the multimedia project as the Clone Wars and TCW as revisionist history.
  20. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    Hutts have moved beyond killing each other over such disputes, after all it is one of the ideas behind the Hutt Grand Council and the Kajidics. :p
  21. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5

    as if letting their slaves fight it out for them is any better :p
  22. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    [IMG]

    Mandalore, you're delicious!
  23. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    Well way more cost efficient for one and of course saver for the Hutts. [IMG]
  24. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5

    They are lucky their brain is so wibbley wobbley... or else they'd no longer alive. Guess evolution really gave them some advantages indeed I admit.
  25. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    Well, I'm sure in about 10 years, Disney won't care for either one. :p
    Last edited by GGrievous, Jan 10, 2013