Lit Clone Wars Continuity Discussion (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by sabarte, May 12, 2008.

  1. Lazy Storm Trooper Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2012
    star 4
    Again? :(
  2. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    Ok, so on paper Darth Maul teaming up with
    Show Spoiler
    Mandos, Black Sun, Jabba & the Hutts, etc
    sounded like overkill....

    ...but in retrospect, that actually really jives with the EU. Except for that
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    ring around Nal Hutta and Black Sun's fortress on Mustafar.
    Dunno what they were doing there. But at any rate, they hit all the main bases, EU and otherwise, for creating a massive criminal force to oppose the Reps and Seps.

    Also,
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    Falleens? on TV??
    That's pretty sweet.
    Summer Dreamer likes this.
  3. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    Nar Shaddaa's first depiction was with a ring of debris around itself (with a Slave 1 cameo, no less). It might be because the moon is in an orbit inside of Nal Hutta's rings in the first place, thus explaining Nal Hutta having rings in TCW. It's been that way since s3, too.
    Last edited by Tzizvvt78, Jan 19, 2013
  4. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    They'll probably come out and claim they're two different places, one with the Nal, one without the Nal. :p
    There are?! :D
  5. Malachi108 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2009
    star 3
    Back when Shadow Conspiracy spoilers first leaked, I too frowned on how they made Black Sun from a massive crime syndicate on a galactic scale into a Falleen-only group. But now Scoundrels came out and Han says that "Falleen means Black Sun". Makes me wonder if it is something that always was there and I missed or a hastily-patched retcon by Zahn (or more likely, Chee).
  6. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
    Well, D-Squad that ain't.

    My only complaint: "The Black Sun"??
  7. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    It definitely wasn't always there. I'm hugely troubled by it, to be perfectly honest, because it makes a hash out of SotE's plot. Remember the whole thing about how Lord Vader couldn't prove that Xizor was head of Black Sun beyond "schoolboy rumors"? If it was totally common knowledge that Falleen off of their homeworld were essentially just Black Sun...

    I mean the whole point was that XTS was a legitimate front for Black Sun, and it explained Xizor's huge wealth and influence. Most of the vigos were other species, and Xizor's rise to prominence wasn't all that long ago.

    But no, we're going to abandon nuance in favor of laziness so that things can be "recognizeable" -- it's the same OT creep we get in TOR, but it's recognizable Falleen being used to denote Black Sun. Lazy, lazy, LAZY!

    (edit: to be clear, I'm mostly complaining about Scoundrels right now -- I won't see this week's episode or how they handle things until it's put up on TOS tomorrow)
    Last edited by GrandAdmiralJello, Jan 19, 2013
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  8. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    star 6
    Han knowing it and it being common knowledge are two different things.

    Alternatively: Han's a racist.
  9. Random Comments Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2012
    star 5
    Also, there are falleen Jedi in the EU...
  10. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    This.

    I mean, there's species stereotyping, and then there's "Falleen means Black Sun". :rolleyes:

    I'm consigning this to no better than an Imperial saying "All Wookiees are ignorant beasts". No doubt the powers that be will apply their typically 12-year-old literal mindedness to it, but pfft, I'm just ignoring it.
    fistofan1 and GrandAdmiralJello like this.
  11. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    Right, he says it, but the others agree with that assessment. I don't want to get too involved in the Scoundrels discussion, but as far as Black Sun in general, I'm not sure how much sense it makes for Xizor to have his top guys be Falleen esp. if it threatens his cover.

    However, I do find the idea of some low level Fallen bosses in Black Sun aping Xizor's personality in order to make themselves seem more important than they are to be kind of hilarious. That, I'd be ok with.

    So basically you're saying that he's right?
  12. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    Yeah, that Black Sun = Falleen thing bugged me too. Course, I can hardly blame the Clone Wars alone - ever since its first appearance, Black Sun has really degraded from "super elite and super secret criminal empire" to "a bunch of well known thugs with their logo plastered on everything". When it comes to logos on their secrect stuff, they are almost as bad as Cobra or the Decepticons.

    Other than that, and not liking the fact that Maul is alive in the first place, I really enjoyed this episode. While not anywhere near Sidious' level, I like that Maul actually shows that he has some planning abilities and is not a single minded assassin (though he really needs a better pitch than "join us or die"). The fight scenes were cool too - I know many will complain about the fact Maul and Savage had any trouble, but as a fan of Sugi and Embo, I really enjoyed seeing how tough they were, even if they ultimately lost. And after seeing Death Watch lose most of its previous fights, it was nice to see how much better they were than normal mercenaries.

    I do wish we had seen more of the Pykes and Black Sun troops in action though.
  13. Todd the Jedi Mod and Sitcom Dad of SWTV

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    Oct 16, 2008
    star 5
    I feel like this discussion came up before, but wasn't it actually called either The Black Sun or the Black Sun organization in SOTE, but never or rarely Black Sun by itself?
  14. Dr. Steve Brule Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 4
    Yeah, SOTE always has it as "the Black Sun" and it's only later on in the EU that "the" gets dropped. Although I don't even recall if Steve Perry's later EU works maintain the "the", either.
  15. JoinTheSchwarz Comms Admin & Community Manager

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    Nov 21, 2002
    star 8
    It would seem after Gayrin's fall a group of Falleen managed to use the chaos to take control of Black Sun and, given their involvement in the Mandalore plot, the "Black Sun = Falleen" association became commonplace among the lowest scum of the galaxy (ie, Han). Xizor probably acted all outraged. "You're saying I am a crime lord because I'm a Falleen!?"
  16. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    Forgot to mention, but I also felt this episode had some good humor moments:
    "So, the information you give me is that we can find Jabba...at Jabba's palace?"

    "I see negotiations have gone as planned!"
    Summer Dreamer likes this.
  17. fistofan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2009
    star 4
    Regarding Black Sun, I wrote the leader on Mustafar off as just a Vigo and not the leader of the entire crime syndicate. I'm just hoping that the writers leave the situation as it is and don't complicate it any further. As it stands, it's actually one of the most easily fixable continuity gaffes the show has thrown at us.
  18. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    I read it the other way- the main guy was the real head, but the others weren't the vigos, they were just his personal staff, hence all being Falleen. I would have more of a problem with Maul showing up at the Black Sun HQ and every single vigo just happening to be there.
  19. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    If he's a Falleen, he's the leader. OBV.


    But practically speaking, whether he be vigo or leader, having the others as vigos is almost like another slap in the face to the films. Sith comes a-calling to the bigtime baddie meeting on Mustafar with all the top henchmen present in one room? What, is there a glitch in the Matrix or something?
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  20. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    And that’s why Black Sun collapsed, whilst the Hutts (who happen to hide Mercs under the negotiation table) are still around. ;)
  21. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I think what he meant was that the Falleen leader, the one voiced by Kevin Michael Richardson, was not the leader of the organization as a whole, but one of the vigos of the era. And as a Falleen vigo, he favored other Falleen as his underbosses. Not that each of the Falleen were vigos. Which is how I read the situation as well.
    Last edited by Mia Mesharad, Jan 19, 2013
  22. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    Yeah, I think that works well. IRL a politician, business head or diplomat etc would bring in their own staff they could trust if they're in a position of power, and they might prefer their own people.

    On a side note: this was this seasons' best episode so far, imo. I expect that to change in the coming weeks....

    (Wow, I just came in to the continuity thread and didn't complain [face_hypnotized])
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  23. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    The problem with that is how does killing a single Vigo, or even the boss, and his underlings gain you control over Black Sun? It doesn't.
  24. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    Perhaps they all retired after the same guy who decimated them 13 years ago reappeared and killed their leader and his underlings. Cash Garrulan "retired" as a Vigo during the war, what's to say the others didn't "retire" too?
    Random Comments likes this.
  25. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Control over all of Black Sun? You're right, it doesn't. But every vigo has his own territory, assets, and infrastructure within the larger organization. Maul effectively co-opted that vigo's segment of the syndicate, and with it, all of his resources.