Discussion in 'Literature' started by sabarte, May 12, 2008.
You didn't know that, Coop?
Yeah, Zeta you shouldn't tell people this. It really undermines your argument if I'm perfectly honest.
I read the NJO instead of the Clone Wars novels several years ago, around the time much of the post-NJO was being published, mainly because it continued Bantam, but I did read the Dark Lord Trilogy and Republic Commando series as I mentioned. What, I can't be perfectly happy with the old timeline thanks to LoE and RotS novelization?
No, you can be happy with it, but saying the "multimedia project is excellent and doesn't need TCW........I think, though I haven't read much of the multimedia project or watched TCW" doesn't help your case. Just sayin'.
That's it, I am going to get the novels and comics asap, so people can actually start taking me seriously.
Here's Zeta's issue: until 2008, there was a definitive sequence of events that pretty nearly chronicled every moment of the Clone Wars, leaving little room for new material. But then TCW came about and made some changes that clearly conflict with certain elements of the old timeline. His issue is that they have gone back and changed the Clone Wars, not necessarily that TCW is worse than what came before (although he does think that). So he doesn't need to have read or watched anything to have an issue with them making what he sees as such a drastic change. And, with a few exceptions (JvS, Marvel, etc.), SW is usually extremely consistent with canon, so he sees such a fundamental difference here that he feels he's been betrayed by LFL.
Sorry to speak for you, Zeta, but it's been nothing but a continual cycle of you saying you don't accept TCW without really explaining your issue well or cohesively.
EDIT: Your complaints about the so-called "Denning-verse", on the other hand, are a bit unwarranted if you have not read those books. The issue there is plot, not changes in continuity.
I recommend these:
Omnibus #1, #2, #3
Not seriously, but it'll certainly help. Though Todd makes a good point - it's the principle, to Zeta, not the content.
That's alright Todd, I have been rather cyclical in my displeasure with TCW, and you really did explain my issue with TCW very well.
I've honestly been amazed at how much material there is about the friggin' Clone Wars. I've only watched the two original 2D animated volumes and read Republic. Don't think I'll ever delve any deeper.
Frankly I'm glad TCW came about and is continuing to pour life into the Clone Wars era. It would have been a shame for the 2002-2005 content to have been the only material we ever got on the Clone Wars, as cohesive as it was. I moved on from thinking the continuity issues were irreconcilable a long time ago, especially with the likes of Jason Fry and Pablo Hidalgo around.
Agreed. The dearth of love for NJO and following LotF era is terrible. At least the Clone Wars is getting more content!
WotC never bothered with an NJO-DN-LOTF sourcebook, did they? Closest we got was the d20 NJO book that didn't go past Star by Star, IIRC. Pity. The era could really use some filling out.
I just think that they could have given us more Clone Wars without resorting to what I consider a reboot.
Believe me, I know your pain.
We got a bit in the Legacy Sourcebook, but not a lot.
It's possible he told me before and my brain rejected the information.
Just promise me you'll start with Jedi Trial.
I plan on buying it, along with the six novels and three comic omnibuses, despite its poor reputation, just because its not TCW. I liked everything Bantam, so I am confident I can handle that much terrible.
I think that's more of a problem with the creators than the show itself; luckily, the show barely gives any indication at all that it takes place over the course of the war. Truthfully, the original Clone Wars multimedia project did a much better job of covering the entire war.
Thing is, it's quite easy to simply ignore their statements that TCW begins almost immediately after AOTC and that it takes place over the entire war. As far as I'm concerned, the original CW project covers the first half of the war, with TCW taking the second, with perhaps some bleeding room (Yoda Dark Rendezvous likely takes place in the second half, but everything else is good)
My main problem is that we aren't getting more content - we're getting replacement content that is less defined and detailed. The entry for Quell in the old Official Databank was probably the finest example of this - it literally told us nothing except that the planet appeared in the show and a battle was fought there. Why was the planet important? How did it fit into the overall war? Answer: who cares, it's a kid's show with a kid's view of war. Time vaguely passes and sometimes it seems like there's barely even a war at all.
A secondary concern is that it feels out of place with the framing movies. The shoehorned apprentice, Grievous almost forgotten about, the Separatist Council never actually appearing (as a Council), the dropping of the TF ships...
I'm still reserving final judgment until CWAS ends and hopefully we can see how it all shakes out - at Celebration they gave the impression they are already working on making it work. So I'm still on board for now.
(And yes, I've read pretty much everything... )
Edit: No, Zeta, Jedi Trial is just awful. It gets everything about the subject matter wrong and has a story as dull as dishwater. Ruins of Dantooine only has the latter, for instance. I don't recommend reading it. At all.
Not to mention when some of that replacement content is literally just repurposing earlier and better storylines. The Mon Calamari and Kamino battles from S4 probably being the examples that spring to mind quickest.
I'm dreading reading Jedi Trial myself. I want to read every major SW novel before going to the NJO, and Jedi Trial is one of the last roadblocks. As is Ruins of Dantooine...
Agreed on TCW. Many of the individual episodes of the series are fairly good, and are usually entertaining. The series as a whole, though, fails to convey any sense of a galaxy shattering war, particularly in comparison to the old timeline. There's little logical progression, little attempt to make it cohesive, and generally boils down to Adventure of the Week. Perhaps this is the aim, as it is a kids show, but in terms of appropriately dramatizing an event like the Clone Wars, it falls short.
That's why I can't accept TCW as the definite account of the war, but I can accept it as part of it. I don't get the complaints that TCW invalidates everything that came before it; it doesn't. It occasionally shows an annoying disregard to the stuff that came before it, yes, but I also feel it could have been much worse. TCW is not always the best written show, but it does succeed in providing mostly entertaining Star Wars stories. They don't have anywhere near the sense of scale that the old comics do, but perhaps it's better that they don't, since I'm not sure that they would do a satisfactory job in portraying something like that.
Not that the old comics were perfect, of course. Still, I felt they were very well done, particularly their structure; splitting the series between Obi-Wan and Anakin on the front lines, covering the war itself, and much more personal and introspective Quinlan Vos stories worked fantastically.
While it is probably getting my hopes up, I hope we get at least a brief appearance of a Mandolorian policeman with a strong Irish accent....
That is very cool. I need to tell this to my paleontologist sister right away.
Or multiple battles on one planet.
I think that is an overstatement. I found the old Clone Wars material to be jumbled and overcrowded as well.
The same is true of the period immediately after Yavin as well.