Discussion in 'Literature' started by sabarte, May 12, 2008.
LMOA. Best retort ever!
What does LMOA stand for? Loving my oracular apple?
Luke and Mara on Alderaan?
Look mom outerspace aliens
...with the lead pipe nanodroids?
Reposting this here because... yeah:
Obama, we'll join you with pitchforks and torches.
Ha! Nice icon,
Why thank you my good man. Might I compliment you on your lack of Ecksteins?
A few other interesting things in that interview:
Filoni says the reason they used Barriss was so that it would have a personal impact on Ahsoka.
They confirm that something is happening to TCW, but they won't say what, when, or where.
Filoni sometimes reads the comments on starwars.com. For lulz.
Filoni admits they overdid the OT references in the beginning. (Only in the beginning? )
On yellow lightsabers: Filoni "snuck that in there" now that George is distracted. Rationalization: "they're a very very very very yellow green".
The Jedi rotate duties as guards. They wear masks to stay anonymous.
Yeah, like I said before--as frustrating as Barriss is to us, it's very clear why they chose her if you only go by the show and its history. While it might be easier to retcon if they just never bring her up again, I'd actually be interested in seeing them check back in with Barriss in the future; I certainly don't see her ending up executed.
Well, not until Order 66 anyways.
That's fair enough, but the show never really capitalised on their past, other than "Is this true, Barriss?". That was it; Ahsoka's exile was prompted by the Council's mistreatment and lack of trust in her. There was so much potential here, but it really could've been any Jedi given the way they went about it.
If the conceit here is that people are becoming more and more disillusioned with the Order, she could even become something of a folk hero down the line.
Whoo boy am I angry.
"Never give up hope, no matter how dark things seem". I'm sorry, I gave up hope around the time I realized Henry Gilroy wasn't coming back.
Sorry, why does Ahsoka need to be expelled from the order to stand trial for the military? It's already a military affair with the dead clones, why is this needed? Also, if that's the case, how come Krell was put down immediately by the 501st, rather than taking him back to the Jedi Council for their so called "internal tribunal"? Gonna answer that one episode?
WHAT EVIDENCE!? WHAT GODDAMN EVIDENCE IS THERE THAT AHSOKA BOMBED THE TEMPLE? She was off planet, in the Colonies region, on assignment when the bomb when off you bloody idiots. The only "evidence" against Ahsoka is of her choking Letta in a holding cell that conveniently had the audio system cut. And nobody in the Military Police OR the Jedi bothered to look into that glaring problem? How stupid are you people?
In possession of nano droid explosives. Right, being found in a warehouse full of nanodroids is automatic proof. Nevermind the telling wreckage that indicated a huge fight had just occurred moments before she was captured by Wolfe. Again, nobody bothers to look for things out of place. What about lightsaber score marks, or the damn explosion last episode? Are they seriously just going to overlook all this in order to push how "guilty" Ahsoka is? It makes the Jedi Conucil look like a bunch of flipping morons, with the MPs being no better.
Of course Anakin doesn't know what to do. With the track record for the Jedi in this episode already in the negatives, he's just par for the course.
Now they're ripping off Star Trek 6: The Undiscovered Country with this court scene. Stay derivative Clone Wars.
Yeah, somehow Ahsoka claiming she would never take the lives of innocents reminds me of when she almost killed an italian fish man under false pretenses for allegedly stealing her lightsaber. Also, didn't Tarkin say he wanted a military tribunal rather than a Jedi one? If so, then why the hell are the Jedi going ahead and making their own court hearing beforehand anyways?
Again with Letta. Nobody bothers to check that the audio has been cut.
Holy crap, someone is making sense for a change. And it's ANAKIN!? Anakin is the one who knows this whole thing is a load of BS. Refreshing for a change.
And any and all sympathy for the Jedi is now gone.**** you idiots. You have circumstantial evidence at best and nothing to back up your statements because neither you nor the military police did any actual investigations. But what am I expecting, logic from a show that is trying to convince me a Jedi can mastermind a bombing from lightyears away?
I will give this episode one credit. The military prison complex is an awesome looking set. That's all I'll say about it.
How exactly is a senator the equivalent of a legal attorney? Oh right, because we need to shoehorn in Padme here somewhere. This episode just gets worse and worse. First it makes no goddamn sense, and now you're forcing Catherine Taber on me again. Just had to be Padme hadn't it? Actually, that makes perfect sense. If you want someone to go along with baseless accusations and circular logic, Padme is the perfect choice. If it was Chuchi or an actual lawyer they might have pointed out all the enormous plotholes in this entire ******* arc.
And now Ahsoka is doing my job and pointing out the plotholes! How the **** could the clones have not noticed evidence of a battle at the warehouse? Absolutely nothing at all? Jesus christ this is stupid. And now Anakin is remaining the most competent person in the script and not letting a little thing like the blatant contradictions at play get in the way of the truth. I can't believe it but I actually like his character for a change. He's not in screwhead territory like every other person.
Curses! Who would have thought that metal guard rails were useless against a lightsaber? Just about any sane person, you would think.
Now why is the Supreme Chancellor overseeing a military tribunal? I know he's the ultimate authority figure of the military and the republic, but you don't see Obama passing judgment on terrorists, or General Eisenhower overseeing the charges against deserters. Usually you have somebody qualified in the school of law to do these sorts of things. But TCW has shown us that Coruscant's law enforcement and Military Police units are woefully incompetent anyways, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that nobody short of the goddamn Supreme Chancellor would oversee a hearing. It's not like he's busy running the government now is he?
Ventress raises a good point. It's not easy for people to sneak up on her. She saw Anakin coming from a mile away here. But Barriss somehow gets the drop on her? Who the hell has Barriss been taking stealth classes from, the Invisible Man? Also, if Ahsoka already told Anakin about Ventress, why the hell did she not mention contacting Barriss as well? So far Anakin has been the only person doing any proper investigation for her, why would she keep that from him? Oh right, so that we could have this hackneyed trial going on. This episode could have been over in five minutes if Ahsoka had just told Anakin what Ventress is telling him here.
Yes, that's right, throw out the evidence because Ahsoka was seen with Ventress. Of course, everything Padme just said is null because of circumstantial evidence. Again. This kangaroo court nonsense is getting on my nerves, if you can't tell.
And Barriss falls into the lame ass "because I'm evil" schtick like a glove. That's right, keep the evidence that indites you in your quarters and attack the first person who comes questioning you. Never mind that it might be your friend's master, who just happens to be THE MOST POWERFUL JEDI IN HISTORY. No, you can take him, rather than doing the smart thing and throwing the lightsabers into a melting pot somewhere. But that would be smart, and in a plot this contrived, we can't have that!
Palps manages to do the only subtle thing this episode with his comments on Separatist plots. Its funny because he's behind them, see? In all honesty, it makes sense for him to go along with this sham, since he obviously wants Ahsoka dead so he can better mold Anakin into his new apprentice.
Yep, the only thing the Council believes is violence. Which is why they stripped Ahsoka of her rank and offered her up for trial rather than just executing her. Go on Barriss, your logic is undeniable. Undeniably flawed and broken, that is.
That kid is just like "It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's Dave Filoni's amateur writing staff abomination!"
The Jedi are not responsible for the war. The war was inevitable even if Yoda hadn't gone to Geonosis. Dooku and Sidious were instigating the process, Yoda was merely reacting.
The only villain I see here is Dave Filoni. Barriss what have they done to you?
So you want to be put on trial, Barriss? Sure, why not? Just confess that you can't in good faith follow the Order if they conflict with your retarded beliefs. You didn't have to murder your friends, bomb the temple and frame Ahsoka to do so! You fully justify the Jedi you are vilifying by choosing violence as your response to their "violence."
And so, Barriss Offee follows the Pong Krell tradition of "insult the viewer's intelligence for the sake of drama". God damn it.
I said this back when we first had suspicions that Tim Curry was going to be Abercrombie's replacement, but he is just awful for the role. I half expect Rendon Howe to come along and burn down House Cousland. The other half is doctor Frank N. Furter doing the Time Warp.
Look at Mace Windu trying to spin doctor this turd. "No, see, humiliating you in front of the entire Republic was your great trial! It totally wasn't because we are a bunch of braindead incompetent fucknobs who couldn't figure our way out of a paper bag! You are like, so much better as a Jedi now that you came through this demeaning, and totally irrelevant trial!"
I'm with Ahsoka on this one. It's a win win. Ahsoka leaves the order (hopefully to become one of those "wait 3 seasons to see me again!" characters), and Anakin finally is in a better position for Palpatine's machinations. I can't blame her for leaving. This whole arc was bullshit to the nth degree. If the Jedi are this stupid, leaving seems like the right choice.
Hey look, they managed to animate liquid without it looking awful. That's about all I can say. Sure, it was heartfelt and genuine between the two, but it all rings hollow after all the **** I had to go through to actually see it.
[Inappropriate] This, this was just insulting to sit through. In a single stroke, you utterly destroy the character of Barriss Offee and turn the Jedi Council into irredeemable morons. You stomp all over stories that have come before without any regard for the implications "because you can", and then act all smug about what a great contribution to Star Wars you are making. [Also inappropriate]
I didn't think it was ever going to top Brothers/Revenge for the worst season finale, but this is easily one of the worst sits I've ever had with The Clone Wars. Even worse than Corruption, even worse than Shadow Warrior. Those at least weren't trying to be good. This is trying to convince me to be sad at how "tragic" the events that are unfolding are, but all I feel is contempt. I hope Disney ****cans this show and we leave it here. There's nothing else you can do that won't poison what you touch.
The problem - and let's face it, it's because this is a kids' show - is that there was nothing suggesting this would be the case. Either someone's actions are telegraphed with the Least Amount of Subtlety Ever (i.e. Krell) or No Prior Knowledge Ever (i.e. Barriss). Vos' arc in the comic made sense because of his background and history. It felt like there was one or two episodes missing there. And as others have brought up, having a reasonable depiction of the courts, or of the actual plot and how it was carried out, was driven over for the sake of moving the story along.
Does anyone think Ahsoka will get a EU treatment past TCW? We know she most likely dodged the Order 66 bullet by leaving the order, but with the fate of TCW uncertain, I'm hoping she will get a good EU story. Thoughts?
The irony of Ahsoka's fate being shown in the very EU that was bulldozed to tell her story would be delicious.
I always felt that the EU was there for us when Lucasfilm wasn't I remembered the dark times after ROTJ and before TPM. The EU got me through that. Knowing that TCW is coming to an end, I'm hoping the EU will step in and fulfill that void.
I also agree in the "irony" I know the Republic Commando series got railroaded because TCW was writing (rewriting) history. Now that the TCW is coming to an end, I wonder if new stories will replace it.
I'm most interested in Ahsoka's fate. Now that she is free to have adventures, I totally am down with EU coming to the rescue again.
There are probably more effective examples to pick than that...
Knowing Lucasfilm, they'll probably make a new movie of Ahsoka founding the rebellion, dying then being cloned and the clone basically being a reincarnation. Well, before Disney anyway, I'm not expecting much better with the change.
It kind of reminds me of the post-NJO novels (where they haven't bothered to introduce many below-30 characters) their excuse that Barriss was Ahsoka's friend, so if they want a traitor who will shake Ahsoka's world view, they choose Ahsoka's friend. Well, her only Padawan friend anyway. I wish they had just introduced a brand new character to be the traitor. Heck, back in the first episode I was wondering if the droids would turn out to be the bombers (either reprogrammed or gone crazy, sort of like how Barriss, Slick and Krell went). Sure, the newly introduced character would be the obvious villain, but its not like TCW cares much about subtlety.
Not to mention Ventress' plot shielding. I was never really happy with her fate post-Obsession since she got off free, although she at least wasn't still an obsessed Jedi killer (not like a certain other failed Jedi apprentice who shows up decades later in LotF), but still. Here at least she's mostly neutral by now, so you'd think with how far gone Barriss is killing Ventress would be a plus (revenge, justice, whatever), but nope, just leave her knocked out, not even leave her for dead anywhere. Just more lazy writing.
What's even funnier is when the episode occasionally brought up logic, such as Padme bringing up how stupid it would be for Ahsoka to Force choke someone on holocam, so they're somewhat aware of the plotholes. Only for it to be thrown out because this is such a fair trial. I think there was holocam footage of Ahsoka cutting down clones during her "escape" from the prison, but that was sliced in and faked, another of Barriss' implausible skills (on top of Force choking Letta from such a great distance). Well, not so much implausible, just seems a lot for her to pull off alone, or at least not something a Jedi would know how to do. Or Anakin going that Barriss should have thrown those incriminating lightsabers away, and then she's practically going mwa-ha-ha at that point. And keeping red lightsabers implies she wants to be a Sith? Well, at least in terms of being anti-Jedi.
I found it kind of funny that they basically discharged Ahsoka from the Jedi Order and the Grand Army of the Republic, was it? So they've already thrown her out and then they try her for treason, sedition, etc. Yeah, that's not quick judgment or anything at all, or innocent until proven guilty (well, they might not necessarily follow that, but its hard to tell with how the whole trial was pre-decided anyway with little to no details on anything). At least Obi-wan spoke up against caving in for the political reasons, but he was overruled.
Funny the things they try to "sneak in". Ahsoka's weird green-yellow lightsaber was already a bit of a break from the "Jedi= blue, green, Sith= red" lightsaber color code (and the one Mace Windu exception), now they added yellow back in, since Lucas was busy? Or soon to no longer be in charge? There's so many other things they could be trying to fix but oh, yes, now we have seen the Jedi use three colors.
At least the designs were nice. Over on the swtor forums I saw a thread that wished some of the new in-game armor looked as cool as the Temple guards' uniform (and some would even buy that design from swtor microtransaction store).
In case you're unaware, everything dealing with Republic Commando-based canon has been brought back on track due to Jason Fry's works across the Essential Atlas, Essential Guide to Warfare, Shadow Conspiracy, and the New Battlefronts Visual Guide. The end result is that all of the canon surrounding those novels is perfectly fine and comes up on top despite TCW's meddling.
Issues like the untimely deaths of Adi Gallia and Even Piell are the harder blows to continuity at this point, since apparently no official retcons are being made to work around their pre-existing stories. And of course, Barriss' random fall into darkness is problematic at this point as well, though MedStar appears to be in the clear so far.