Discussion in 'Literature' started by sabarte, May 12, 2008.
That is a quality of Planet of Twilight
POT is one of the hardest books for me to get through.
Just re-read the X-Wing books.
Yeah once Beldorion dies you can essentially stop as he is pretty much the only thing interesting about the book.
It has pretty slick cover art.
Of course, I'm not sure it reflects the plot all that well. McQuarrie Coruscant, Hoth soldiers and turrets, uh..
Well....um....yeah. I got nothing on that. That's probably the book with the least representative cover art. Though I believe its the first time we see Leia with a lightsaber...
At least it looks interesting unlike some other we have seen…
No argument there. Im rather tired of the "one close up of a character per cover" rule that has dominated since the end of the NJO for all books. (Clone Wars Gambit (both), Riptide, Crosscurrent, LOTF, FOTJ, the four TOR novels...) Seriously people...
Unfortunately, due to the fact that said cover art showed Leia with a yellow lightsaber, the artist in the Essential Reader's Companion just decided he'd use yellow, as well–despite the fact that Leia was said to have a blue saber in the book proper. Book covers: making reference artists lazy since 2002.
I guess Luke's lightsaber was orange in SOTE.
^ Clearly Luke was working the kinks outta figuring out his correct style for ROTJ, experimenting with lightsaber colours & looks. I mean, he's wearing a fishing jacket fer crissakes!
After reading the Marvel comics I've given up trying to make sense of Luke's lightsaber situation between ESB and RotJ.
Sorry about the late replay
Thanks for the compliment
Me I like epigraphs, they are used for excellent effect by White Wolf and Games Workshop, I just don’t think thate some of the epigraphs Traviss wrote was not so well edited.
If we take a look at what Lord Gajakur Biul said -
"Enemies are not accidental or unfortunate. We make them, we earn them, and we nurture them, whether we realize it or not. If we can't find real enemies, we'll invent them and make them as big as we can. They become our justification for existing, or excuses for our own failings. Many of us would suffer if we didn't have them - who would need Jedi if there were no dark Force users?"(B.t.w. I think it is stupid that it is used as an epigraph for the Kilian Ranger article on the wook', it has nothing to do with the Rangers after all.)
The thing is that I would not have any problem with the quote if it was said in an other era when the jedi and sith were openly fighting each other. By the time of the Clone war the jedi had not (knowingly) fought against the sith for around a thousand years - more or less the same amount of time that Kilian have been separated from the galaxy - and other dark Force users have not really shown themselves to be that big of a threat to have a order of over thousand jedi constantly on the Republics payroll. Instead they earned their rent by bearing federal marshals, diplomats and protectors; stopping dark Force users is just minor part of their job under this time. In a way I could see it being said by a dark Force user justifying her behaviour.
Also; having a Kilian Ranger among the Altis group feels, to me, like having a samurai helping out with the Underground railroad. It is something that is possible but not very likely.
When it comes to Kina Ha's epigraph –
“Your prowess with a lightsaber is childish vanity. Your physical Force powers are no more than a conjurer's trick, sleight of hand to dazzle the ordinary beings you should be serving. You profane these powers by using them as weapons in war. And you fail to grasp the single, simple, uncompromising duty of the true Jedi. The Jedi is the rock-lion at the gate who says, "I will defend these beings with my life, and that is the sum of me." Etain Tur-Mukan died to save one life, a man she did not even know, but felt compelled to save, and that is what made her stronger in the Force and a truer Jedi than any of you acrobats, tricksters, and specious, empty philosophers.” I think part, other than the one you mentioned, of the reason people have problem with it is that, to my understanding, rather many thought that Etain's death and/or character development in the later books were badly handled. And then Traviss hade one other of her characters praise how Etain ended, to many people that probably seemed like she was blowing her own trumpet.
B.t.w. how were the readers supposed to know that it was "from encounter in the near future involving literal fake Jedi."? And if they were fake jedi how did they learn Force techniques, get lightsaber training and 'sabres?
Also while we are talking about Traviss epigraphs: Am I the only one that thinks think Vergere is dissing both the Jedi, Sith and Mandalorians since a three edged blade is worthless for cutting? Why else would she say that "there are three sides to this blade" instead of that 'there is a point to this blade'?
"Warmaster, we think too often in terms of dualism: Jedi or Sith, light or dark, right or wrong. But there are three sides to this blade, not two, opposed and similar at the same time. The third edge is the Mandalorian. All three sides care nothing for caste or species, only adherence to a code that unites. The Mandalorians remain the most formidable enemy of the Jedi: but the Sith are not always their allies. The Mandalorians even worshiped war itself, then simply turned their backs on their god. You might begin to understand them one day." And why would Vergere regard the mandos as still "the most formidable enemy of the Jedi"? By the time she left known space was not the mandos a mere shadow of the threat they once were?
But than again everything she says is a lie...
I think the point of the epigraphs is to see an outsider's view on what's going on around them–or, in a few cases, to show something important happening without actually having to write it in the story. And, in one case in the TCW novel, shoehorn in one of the Null ARCs as having been the one to find Teth, IIRC. (But I actually liked that, it's kind of cool.)
I don't think it's so much Traviss blowing her own trumpet–more, it's one of her in-universe characters complimenting another one on her actions. Think about it: who cares what anyone thought about Etain's actions? What possible bearing could that have on an in-universe statement. How could Kina Ha know how the readers feel about Etain's actions?
That would be like (hypothetically) complaining about Captain America complimenting Hulk on his handling of Loki if people watching the movie (hypothetically) didn't like it (I loved it). "I don't like it, so Captain America/Kina Ha shouldn't be complimenting it." But how would Captain America/Kina Ha possibly know the reader/viewer, someone who technically doesn't exist in their universe, didn't like those actions? It's a silly complaint.
Also, it's not so much needing to know Kina Ha was talking to literal fake Jedi, as not assuming she's talking to Luke's Jedi. Why would anyone draw that parallel? Why would anyone just assume she was talking to Luke? It didn't state, or even hint, that she was. So basically, just people jumping to conclusions, correct?
I don't know what to tell you there, and no, I don't think Vergere was dissing them; she was using a metaphor. And I can't explain Vergere's "the most formidable enemy of the Jedi" except for one thing–before LOTF, before the Vergere-Sith retcon, it could be assumed that Vergere only knew of Darth Sidious, and no other Sith–therefore, it's one Sith for a thousand years, or the Mandalorians constantly popping up over those same thousand years. That's my view on it.
Vergere would not have know of Sidious either. Jacen tells her about Vader and the Jedi purge in Traitor and Destiny's Way, respectively. She actually asks Jacen about in DW because she didn't understand why the Jedi order was so small and poorly trained.
I just think they should have used some thing else then a Kilian Ranger
I did not say that Traviss was blowing her own trumpet, I hope, I was commenting on
@patchworkz7 's post were he said that Kina Ha's epigraph had "confused and angered people" and I shared a theory that I developed some time ago to why some people disliked that epigraph
Correct. I think the reason people jumped to that conclusion was that Kina Ha was talking to a group with lightsabres and Force training that called themselves jedi and that she did not recognize as jedi. To my understanding there were few known groups after Order 66 that called themselves jedi beside Luke’s and Traviss had by then got a reputation of disliking the jedi. So people allowed their own prejudges of Traviss to colour their interpretation of Kina Ha’s somewhat fuzzy quota.
In that case she was using a bad metaphor, as I said "a three edged blade is worthless for cutting", but can be ratter good for stabbing
I would think that the Black Sun probably was a bigger threat to the jedi in the last, at least, half millennia since the Mandolorians are a big threat in wartime but in peach time a large and well organised crime organisation can probably do more damage to what the jedi are protecting and be harder to root out
So, for those interested in this sort of thing, SF Debris, an online reviewer who usually focuses on Star Trek in its varying forms, has deigned to tackle parts of TCW this week, starting with Holocron Heist. He reviewed the Nightsister trilogy from season 3 previously, and has seen more of the series than he's reviewing, so he's not going in blind or dumb. A great outsider's perspective on the series, I think.
He's from Stardestroyer.net, not an outsider to anything SW.
I mean outsider as in: a literary and balanced POV that isn't necessarily from this board. Though, I didn't know that he had ties to the Star Wars community as well. It makes sense, I suppose, he did do a superb job with his Astromech Spy gag subtitle series.
And now his review of Cargo of Doom is up. We get a "Smooth Criminal" joke (Annie are you okay?), disparaging the battle droid humor, and him noting that this is more of what a Star Wars show should be. He says he hasn't seen a lot of it, and is looking forward to future episodes if it continues the same level of quality action. The poor fellow.
Yep I also like his comment on that it really just makes it depressing, since it really just makes the Battle Droids look like helpless forced conscripts.
It's true. I mean, there's so much made of the individuality of the clones, and yet the battle droids have just as much if not more personality and they get cut down and blown up with complete abandon. Killer robot thing aside, they're at least programmed to feel fear.