Lit Clone Wars Continuity Discussion (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by sabarte, May 12, 2008.

  1. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Interesting point.

    Makes me curious how DH and KT will approach their parts in all this (i.e. the comic spin-off and the novelisation). KT will presumably have a relatively simple task since all she has to do is convert the movie into a novel but she'll still have to play it cool with referencing other Clone Wars events if it does turn out to alter the timeline. Which, in a backwards kind of way, may end up making it necessary for her to write it with no basis of what is going to be happening next, which could bring us back to the problems a lot of people had with the Clone Wars novels in the first place with the dots not feeling joined up.

    DH will be interesting to see. I'm not entirely sure if they're just turning the movie into a TPB, shadowing the TV series with comics of the individual episodes, or creating their own independent stories. Again, if its just the movie being made into comic form, presumably it will be relatively simple for them, but if they're doing their own thing they'll have to be careful with cameos and things lest having Quinlan Vos show up break the space time continuum. I always feel one of the things DH do so well is continuity, which if they're forced to create new stories in a kind of limbo of uncertainty about where or when they're taking place in relation to other events may force them to make everything feel very detached from other stories.

    Oh well. I'm still looking forward to this but it'll be curious to see how the non-TV stuff works.
  2. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    You're welcome to. [face_peace]

    Pulling a Ratner, oh, I remember this, but I wanted to highlight this...

    Back in 1991, Gerald Ratner's famous speech was instantly seized upon by the media, wiping an estimated £500m from the value of the company, and in 1994 his name was expunged from the company.

    I would laugh myself to the insane asylum if George ever managed to do that. :p

    Remember, everyone, we're assuming the entirety of the Clone Wars is trashed. It may simply be retconning that Anakin was a Knight into all the stories, but still under supervision, or some-such. It's survivable.

    I'm slightly concerned that we're devolving into the same cycle we've had since, oh, Path of Destruction? The Revelation spoiler thread was a farce, and I believe (having not entered the thread I may be assuming) there was a near-farce in the Invincible spoiler thread from a few summary lines. This is our fourth inferno of debate in the row, people! Let's keep it optimistic!

    We may all be wrong, or, more likely...

    [face_idea]

    The Databank is atypically almost always wrong!

    So sue me, I'm an optimist. :p
  3. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    Well...if they do let it go to this...

    I suggest we create a community continuity.

    call it L-Canon

    Lit-Canon?

    Logical-Canon?

    Lucid-Canon?

    _______

    I think this proves once and for all...I don't think that really contributes anything

    If I hear some garbage about this always being part of his vision...

    Note to readers of Dark Times, Rebellion...GET OUT NOW...it's futile.

    Don't play anywhere NEAR George's toys...he's gonna run away with them.
  4. patchworkz7 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2004
    star 4
    I doubt that the public is really going to even bat an eyelash at GL saying the EU (which most of them probably don't know about) doesn't mean anything to him and doesn't exist, in his opinion. My point was that it's pretty bad when the owner of a company goes on record disavowing part of their empire.

    Even funnier when things like LoE, very EU, were supposed to be the run-up to RoTS and it was vital for us to have read it to find out how things got to where they were in RoTS.

    I don't think there's anything GL could say that could damage the SW brand at the moment, but among the fandom, they really are making some missteps.

    And I think part of the so-called REVELATION farce was the idea of canon change, which people thought was horrible and couldn't believe that LFL would do such a thing and then a few months later...oh, the new CW cartoon picks up right after Geonosis? Anakin a Knight right off? Has a Padawan?

    And this sounds like stuff they probably would have known just from the initial movie. There's 200 some episodes planned, iirc. Plenty of time to screw things up further.
  5. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    Just ask yourself this question:

    "Is it fiscally advantageous to do so?"

    and then remember that this was a TV show that's being plugged into theaters...cause they can...and I'll wager the price won't be lower because it's a tv show on the big screen.

    And that all of this is coming from the man who is on record as considering the theater experience to be dead or dying and that new avenues are what he's dedicated to in expanding the saga.

    ...

    ... ...

    ... ... ...


    So who's ready for 7,8,9!? I know what we've heard...but who actually believes what their told when money could be made hand over fist!!

    No wonder LOTF has turned out the way it has...none of it is gonna matter!

    Self-Destruct Code 1 1A 2B...
    Bullhead CIty likes this.
  6. Rouge77 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2005
    star 5
    That would be the silver lining of this mess.[face_tired]
  7. sabarte Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2005
    star 4
    I'm actually more optimistic about Clone Wars than about further novels right now. While I'm a hardcore Lucenoite and will happily buy Millennium Falcon, the books seems to have...collectively lost the plot somewhere. I never really stepped into NJO and beyond, though I did some library browsing, and I'm not planning to in the future. I'm probably going to buy the Traviss novelization, though I hope it doesn't spend the entire pagecount trying to show the Jedi are morally bankrupt. I'll also be checking out Karen Miller to see how she adapts to the EU.

    My feeling is - the guys in charge of Clone Wars know who Sora Bulq is, so that's a good start. And if they address the one thing that I felt was missing from the Clone Wars EU...."Heroes on both sides" and the exploring the Separatists as a serious threat with realistic motives - I will be thrilled.
  8. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Bah, Anakin's padawan was just off-camera!
  9. jSarek VIP

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2005
    star 4
    Zero, zero, zero . . . destruct, zero.

    Peripheral. I swear.
    Bullhead CIty likes this.
  10. Kaje Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    God. Damn.

    I'm really upset about this. It honestly seems like these people have absolutely no respect for the reader and viewers. I'm so fricking pissed about this that I seriously feel like abandoning SW altogether.

    But I won't. These kriffers have me for life. I hate you, LFL. I hate you so hard.

    I really do.
  11. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Overreacting much?

    Star Wars, EU is just a comic book universe with novels.

    We're lucky continuity is better than Spiderman.

    But it won't be if it lasts as long as Spiderman.

    That's just the nature of the beast.
  12. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10

    Ok- I know I tend to be on the optimistic side of things, but I can't help but think people are blowing this way out of proportion.

    First off, the Databank is one of the few SW sources that is fluid- this information could be temporary until they do a fully update later this year after they've worked out the retcons.

    Secondly, people are DEFINITELY jumping the gun if you think that one small detail in a databank update is going to result in a radical timeline compression. One thing changing doesn't mean everything is changing.

    All this means is we're to expect some retcons for the TV show to be forthcoming- Anakin getting a General rank early in the war? Some kind of temporary provision that is later revoked by his actions or is terminated after certain goals are achieved. Anakin's early Knighthood? "On this mission, for all intents and purposes, you will be a Jedi Knight." or something along those lines. Ventress being back with the Count after Obsession? Perhaps she achieved something that turned her back to his side which also changed Dooku's opinion of her. Etc, etc.


    Or...we could all be blowing this way out of proportion, and the show really DOES take place in the last year pf the war like we thought. Think about it- Venators, Grievous, MagnaGuards, longhaired-Anakin, clones with customized kama? Really screams "late war" more than "just after AOTC". Add to that Dave pointing out they were looking to transition from the look of CW GT (early war) to the ROTS look of characters, and it does point to "late war".
  13. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    More likely.

    * Anakin Skywalker was a Jedi Knight, ignore all the other stuff about his not being one.

    * Anakin's Padawan was on the ship when he went to Naboo's Moon.
  14. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    That doesn't seem likely at all, actually- there's no feasible way to do that.


    Wasn't it Lucas who decided to have Anakin become a Knight late in the war anyways? The Clone Wars campaign could have easily made Anakin a Knight at least a year earlier in the war without any trouble, and with enough advanced word from Lucas, probably could have done it even earlier.
  15. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    You seem to be assuming that Lucasfilm actually cares about the minute detail.

    Why not simply say "Those sources are outdated."

    Sort of like they never tried to retcon the story of Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker and Obi Wan on a mission in Marvel.
  16. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Actually, I'm certain they have- you're referring to the "Obi-Wan, Anakin & Darth Vader" reference with the bird people? I thyink HNN at least touched upon that, and that it was expanded upon in a subsequent source somewhere.
  17. Fettster Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2003
    star 3
    Meet...Halagad Ventor, the true bearer of Anakin's lightsaber during the mission to Skye thanks to a Concordance of Fealty with the Padawan.
  18. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    In other words....not remotely sensible.

    So just assume she was there and Anakin was a knight
  19. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Because there's no way to do that without the resulting domino effect "outdating" almost all sources.

    What do you mean? How is that?
  20. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Because there's no way to do that without the resulting domino effect "outdating" almost all sources.

    And?

    They can say "Something similar happened to what was in the books."

    It works fine for comics.
  21. HedecGa Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2006
    star 4
    Thanks for putting things into perspective, Quest. I still want to believe that it all counts as continuity and I have high hopes for this series, in spite of today's concerns. I'm really trying not to let this current wave of "It's all leading to chaos!" derail my enthusiasm of SW, in general. There ARE things that have always been inconsistent in SW. I look at LoE and the end of the CN: CW and there's this huge difference in events but, you know what? SW didn't implode. Continuity is still in tact, for the most part. It's got some holes, but the thing, as a whole, is still there. Still functioning. Still kicking tail.

    Speaking of the whole Anakin, Vader, Obi-Wan misstep--look how long we had to wait to get an explanation on that one. Point: We did get one. If SW continues without someone trashing the whole thing and starting over (a pox on him, in advance), I am prepared to believe that SOMEWHERE along the line, though it may be 25 years from now, someone will retcon it.

    Marine said it was up to the fans to bridge the gap, to fix the holes. Well, who are tomorrow's SW writers but today's fans? What little kid is going to go see Clone Wars on the big screen, then read some of the "old" Republic comics and see some things that don't mesh? He/She may well grow up, join the ranks of SW writers, and fix those bygone days.

    I watched ANH tonight with my two-year old daughter on my lap. She clutched her little Mickey Mouse doll and ate up every scene. Who knows what her generation will accomplish in the way of fixing our continuity problems? What kinds of awesome SW stories will they tell?

    Yeah, LFL should, perhaps, be stricter to keep everything in continuity fixed. And, I'm am opposed to this whole "Let's rewrite what we want to tell our stories better." But, at the same time, look at how many great stories we got out of the retcons themselves. I hold hope for the future, but I'm a sentimentalist, I suppose.
  22. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    It's a good point, HG- retcons have led to some of the best stories of the past 8 years.

    However, we're not talking about your typical comics universe- what you're suggesting is not in-line with the company's policies/approach to the material for the past 15-20 years.
  23. Havac Some Guy Who Moderates Lit

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    I'd feel a lot better about this if there had been an announcement from Chee saying, "Well, we're changing things around for the TV series, but we've spent the last six months looking at how we can make this work, and here's the definitive official timeline for all prior sources and what we're doing with them. Dark Rendezvous is going to be set one year ABG, Jedi Trial is set ten months ABG, The Cestus Deception is staying where it is and any references to 'padawan' should be read as 'former padawan', The Siege of Saleucami is staying exactly where it is now," etc, etc, etc. In short, I'd feel a lot better if I felt like they had an actual handle on what they're doing, a plan, a fix ready to drop in place, instead of just saying, "Well, it's all canon, and we'll let Wallace and Pena retcon it out eventually. Then we'll probably ignore that retcon whenever we need to, too."
  24. rechedelphar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2004
    star 6
    so basically everyhting that happened now has a different time frame?? is anything being eliminated?
  25. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    They are altering the continuity.

    Pray they don't alter it further.[face_skull]

    :eek: