Lit Clone Wars Continuity Discussion (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by sabarte, May 12, 2008.

  1. Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group

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    It's blue, and I think I even recognize the staging (from the videogame cutscene, wasn't it?). Even if it's not "the canon death of Shaak Ti", it's something that makes us think of Vader purging the Jedi, and that's the intent, if you ask me.

    Well - of course Yoda wouldn't need to ask about the future to get information about the Dark Lord; unless he thinks Qui-Gon only knows about the lives of the people he was connected to, and who might only find out about Sidious in the future. Which might be wobbly writing after all. As it stands, future or not, Qui-Gon can't tell anything period, and since he's outside of time, he obviously couldn't change what's happening (that's predetermination for you) since it kind of already has all happened for him, from a certain point of view. It's debatable whether him showing hints to Yoda is a loophole or part of "the plan".
  2. HEDGESMFG Force Ghost

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    He saw an Anzatti kill him. His true death. Which could take place much later than the shuttle explosion. Potentially 'after' the episodes.
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  3. Esg Jedi Grand Master

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    I can live with this
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  4. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    It is rather curious how all this storytelling connects to Episode I in some way, whether it be the Sifo-dyas and Valorum stuff that went on during that time, or the view of the Force that Lucas developed when writing that film which he injected rather heavily into it via symbolism, and which informed not just the NJO but a lot of the subsequent EU such as Rogue Planet and Cloak of Deception.
  5. HEDGESMFG Force Ghost

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    There are often multiple terms that can be used for the same concepts, just as planets can have multiple names. Hence why the we may be able to say that the Force wielders are also sages are also the whills are also celestials are also architects, ect. ect.

    The Sifo-Dyas situation does sound a bit confusing as the episode seems like it heavily implied that he dies while Valorum is still chancellor, and yet the time period is so closely aligned that we can probably fudge it around to still make things work. It's still seemingly implied that Dooku probably kills Sifo-Dyas, so I'm sure we can work the rest of his story back into place somehow. Just find a more precise order for which events occur. Not to mention Sifo-Dyas' timeline was 'always' muddled ("Died over 10 years ago", "I was under the impression he was killed before that")
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  6. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    But what does it make Yoda think? That's what I'm wondering. It feels like it gives too much away.

    From an in-universe perspective I don't really get that. The real reason why Qui-Gon can't spill the beans is because it would screw up the plot. This contrasts with the OT, because in that trilogy there was a reason why the ghost character kept certain things hidden, and it was precisely because he didn't want the outcome to be influenced in a certain way.

    Almost ten years ago.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Mar 2, 2014
  7. The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost

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    So, is this the last time we'll ever hear about midi-chlorians in a mainstream Star Wars product?
  8. Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group

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    It does feel like that, but it could mean that he's only seeing vague images that we with our knowledge of "the future" can interpret correctly. Yoda probably won't have specific information, unlike Anakin on Mortis where it's heavily implied he's already seeing Ep3 before it happens. While we as the audience know for sure that Yoda's vision refers exactly to Episode 3, he will just take away that the Sith, including that Sidious creature, destroy the Jedi, and that vast darkness is on the horizon. Seeing Mace's death, for example, doesn't give him "true" knowledge about Mace's death, but a vague knowledge that all Jedi including his close friend face extinction. It's important to notice that Yoda doesn't roll over because all is lost; it's more of a quest of gathering information to prepare for the future he's seen.
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  9. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    He'll also take away that a (likely) Jedi was killing other Jedi, based on the blue lightsaber.

    *consults crystal ball*

    No.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Mar 2, 2014
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  10. Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group

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    Again, while we see the details, Yoda may not. It may be a case of him feeling the Jedi betrayed to their death. When you have a dream that upsets you, you remember a lot of things that you can't put into words, and colours might not be the first among them. He might feel that a Jedi betrays the Jedi, taking the blue lightsaber as a symbol for a Jedi; but even then he could attribute this to Dooku who already is a Jedi traitor.
  11. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    This is like predicting that Vader is Luke's father based on the cave sequence on Dagobah. It might seem obvious in retrospect.
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  12. Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group

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    Exactly. We shouldn't assume that Yoda is getting definitive information here, rather a vague feeling of what is to come. Lightsaber colours and a voice matching Palpatine is not what this is about (unless you're the OOU audience). Why am I saying this? Because it truly makes no sense to give definitive knowledge to Yoda and then have him keep quiet for the sake of predetermination.

    Hm. Although he was the only Jedi to anticipate Order 66.
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  13. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    In the ROTS novelization, Mace Windu tells Yoda that Palpatine is the Sith Lord before they go off to arrest him. Lucas didn't remove this, though I guess it's not necessarily "Lucas canon" or whatever, but Yoda might have pieced things together at that point. And if not, he definitely did once he started sensing all the Jedi dying across the galaxy.
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  14. Revanfan1 Chosen One

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    He's contemplating the fact that Palpatine's a Sith, and then he realizes, "Oh, man, that vision! And Gree has some threatening attitude going on right n–" *jump-slash*

    That makes sense to me, personally. Yoda should've been the first to know after they found out.
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  15. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    There's still hope. Yoda could get his memory wiped before the end of the episodes!
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  16. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Qui-Gon telling Yoda to go to Dagobah seems kind of like it ties into the little vignettes from the microseries in which Qui-Gon was on Dagobah with Episode I Anakin.
  17. Revanfan1 Chosen One

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    That had occurred to me, too. Especially since it's implied in the Microseries that Yoda's seeing that in a vision, IIRC.
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  18. Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group

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    Totally out of memory, wasn't that more like a "cut" scene from the Naboo swamps?

    TCW does tie in with Ben telling Luke to go to Dagobah, though - even the bacta tank might be seen as a reminder of the Ep5 scenes.
    Last edited by Grey1, Mar 2, 2014
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  19. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    It's the same tree as on Dagobah, IIRC.
  20. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    And by "it ties in", we mean "TCW ripped off was inspired by Tartakovsky yet again."
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Mar 2, 2014
  21. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    I guess the microseries was ripping off Empire Strikes Back.
  22. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    I thought it was injected via dialogue. What symbolism?
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Mar 2, 2014
  23. purplerain Force Ghost

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    The Unifying Force existed before life did. Interesting...
  24. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Another aspect which I like is it really goes against this perception of Qui-Gon being fixated upon the Living Force to the exclusion of the Unifying Force, with the Jedi status quo being the opposite, which I always saw as not only telling and not showing, but not even supported by what we were shown. Qui-Gon is the only Jedi that speaks of the will of the Force in the films and his "maverick" nature is due to his tendency to take what he perceives to be the will of the Force as his mandate, rather than what he was instructed to do by the Jedi Council or the Supreme Chancellor. The will of the Force as a concept is firmly rooted in the Cosmic Force, and this episode articulates that with the midi-chlorians serving as a conduit between a life form and the Cosmic Force -- "They continually speak to you, telling you the will of the Force."
  25. HEDGESMFG Force Ghost

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    It is interesting that they bring the "Cosmic Force" into the equation... which could potentially be a version of the Unifying Force, for the entry on the Unifying force gives us a possible rationalization for why Yoda may be hesitant to accept what he sees as the final end result...

    From the "Two Aspects of the Force" section of the Force article...

    Long story short, Yoda often seeks out visions, but is also usually wary of what he sees in them, for it may be a possible false future, or a dark side manifestation of his fears. Perhaps he does not fully believe what he sees will come to pass, believes it to be false, or does not clearly see it. Casting doubt on what he sees.

    And once again, the EU balances yet another potential plot hole.
    Last edited by HEDGESMFG, Mar 2, 2014
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