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Lit Clone Wars Continuity Discussion (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by sabarte, May 12, 2008.

  1. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 15, 2006
    That's the thing, though --- you won't buy it, but millions of casual fans will. Stories like Peter Pan and The Wizard of Oz get unofficial origin stories every few years, and people buy them in droves, even if they're not authorized by Barrie's or Baum's estates as being official canon. As soon as it became clear that The Clone Wars was a pie in which Lucas would be routinely sticking his fingers, the notion of one cohesive continuity was thrown out the window. If the folks at Lucas Licensing had admitted as much from the beginning instead of denying it for years, I think we could all have enjoyed it a lot more. "Here was Dark Horse/Del Rey/Genndy's take on the Clone Wars, and now here's ours." The integrity of the original clone wars multimedia project could have been preserved quit a bit more if authors weren't bending and twisting it out of shape in order to conform it to its new animated overlord. Lucas has been saying for years that the (non-TCW) EU is its own universe, anyway. Accepting as much would have allowed it more freedom.

    Then again, I'm probably the only one at this forum who's actually excited for the EU to go out the window.
     
  2. Starkeiller

    Starkeiller Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Well, I can only speak for myself here, but if they had never aimed for a cohesive continuity and had come out and said that, I would never have bought any of the products.

    And even if the EU goes out the window, in which case the situation you are describing would turn from mere dishonesty towards consumers into an actual fully-qualified scam, whatever will replace it will be consistent with itself (or try to) in the "this is the same story in different media" manner. Continuity always matters, even in the case of those "reboots" I so loathe -- after you "reboot", things are expected to make sense between themselves, if not with what came before.
     
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  3. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I'm OK with some continuity snags based on This Author not knowing what That Author was doing.

    I also find some of the changes too petty to worry about, but that's going to come down to taste.

    It's continuity snags caused by George Lucas changing his mind all the time and contradicting his own damn movies that makes me insane.
     
  4. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 15, 2006
    Yeah. I'm fine with the TCW changing things, but I just laugh whenever one of the VIPs equates it to "George Lucas's true vision for Star Wars." That man makes crap up on the fly like it's going out of style.
     
  5. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    It is true vision at the moment.
     
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  6. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    I just laugh when they take it to a zealous yet arbitrary extreme, as seen with Dagobah, Stewjon, and Skywalker wine.
     
  7. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Skywalker whine: canon since 1977.
     
  8. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    He's Duros.
     
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  9. Random Comments

    Random Comments Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2012
    [face_sigh]
    Even though both of those actually have actual prequels/origin stories written by the author. :rolleyes:


    I certainly wouldn't have been as much of a fan if they hadn't been going for the "single-universe" approach. It's the reason I haven't expanded into the Doctor Who books or Star Trek EU: those stories don't fit together with the TV stuff and aren't internally consistent.
    Imagine if they renamed the SkySolos in every new book to come out, or switched around their genders, ages, and personality traits at random. I'd have no reason to buy these other books, because they don't connect or make sense.
    Which is to to say that I won't still enjoy what we've got (I already ignore the NJO on), but I won't be as interested nor spend nearly as much in the future.
     
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  10. Grey1

    Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2000
    Whoa whoa whoa.

    Whoa.
     
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  11. Random Comments

    Random Comments Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2012
    No, really. He's Duros.
     
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  12. Mat Skywalker

    Mat Skywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 8, 2005
    Revelations abound
     
  13. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    I just realized that Maul's survival is just like Simus's in TOTJ.
     
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  14. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 15, 2006
    I get that. But switching things at random every book is pretty extreme. I'm not saying fans would dig that, but there's a lot of precedent in the comic book industry for multiple timelines and/or reboots. Comic fans who read X-Men still purchased and enjoyed House of M. The nineties cartoon is also its own world, the films are their own world, etc, etc. Star Wars is big enough for multiple timelines, and I think that 2008 was the right time for LFL to admit that, rather than waiting until 2015. Ironically enough, it would have made the continuity cleaner.

    Just in case somebody asks "But which Clone Wars timeline should the post-NJO reference?" the answer is that the post-NJO shouldn't reference the Clone Wars at all. Luke's order was interesting before it was turned into an OJO clone. "But look! We rebuilt the Jedi temple exactly like the old one!" Waru dammit.
     
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  15. Random Comments

    Random Comments Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2012
    I know comics do that. That's why I became a Star Wars fan, and not a DC or Marvel comics fan. I mean, I'll watch the Marvel Cinematic Universe films, but I'm not going to spend my money on a Thor comic after I watch the film or anything, because they don't connect. The brilliance of the creation of the EU was the possibility for repercussions. That if something earth shattering happened, it stayed having happened, and the characters would have to deal with it. I've already said that I dislike the NJo+, but when they'd killed off Chewie and Anakin, they didn't go "oh, wait, Life Model Decoy or Whoops, we lied," the characters had to deal with what had happened to them. Admittedly, it's not always been pulled off well, and some stories really don't deserve to be part of the canon, but a unified canon was one of the main draws to Star Wars fandom...
     
  16. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    From memory, I think this was another one of those "Unfamiliar surroundings" situations where Leland/Pablo/whichever took a quote from Lucas in such a literal way that they ruled out Wookiee Jedi as biologically impossible, when it turned out (from memory, if I am recalling this right) that all Lucas had cared about was there being no Wookiee Jedi around for ROTS, so that Yoda would remain the Jedi with closest relations that got sent to Kashyyyk.

    But, as so often happens, things get taken with such literalness...
    The interesting thing I've started to wonder about TCW is: it got cancelled.

    What does that actually leave Disney thinking...? I honestly don't know. Was TCW a success...? Or was it a short lived hype that had the "OMG! STAR WARS!" buzz like Episode 1 originally created... until those casual audiences grew bored again?

    I continue to be angry -- very angry -- that the United Kingdom didn't even screen Season 5 (and I think we didn't even get Season 4, if I remember right?). We had to wait for the DVD. So it clearly wasn't even popular here... and that's going to be something Disney will have looked at and wondered what went wrong, and why TCW actually wasn't the sprawling super success story that they had originally hoped for -- and which it strangely still gets treated as, despite being axed in the UK 3 years ago, meaning it actually must have been a waste of money as far as Sky TV were concerned.

    My older brother is a shining example. He's not a Star Wars geek. He grew up with them in the 70s and 80s, and had all the toys as a kid, but that's as far as his interest went. He watched the PT, because sure, he likes the films, has one of those glowing lightsabers for a laugh, and will see the sequels, but that's it. He is the definition of those casual audiences who were Star Wars junkies long ago... but who grew up. So when Season 1 came out? Sure, he watched it with his son...

    He never bothered with Season 2 though.
     
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  17. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 15, 2006
    Yeah, I agree that the unified canon was great. Was is the operative word, though. It's obviously out the door with Episode VII, and I think that TCW was enough of a Lucas-project-in-direct-contradiction-to-the-EU that they should have gone for the multiverse option as early as 2008. TCW is more similar to Ep. VII than it is to the rest of the EU in that it's not at all beholden to C-canon --- I even hesitate to call it EU at all. Right from the get-go, we were told "OK, Anakin's knighting has been moved ahead by more than two years, and he has an apprentice pretty much right from the start of the war." The attempts to make everything fit were admirable, but the original Clone Wars have been screwed with so much that I would prefer them to be their own separate timeline in order to have their original integrity maintained.

    Even if Episode VII weren't happening, Rebels is so very obviously going to discard most (if not all?) of the Rebellion's foundation story. It might take a few seasons for them to get there, but it will. TCW was the harbinger of EU discarding, and it's only going to get worse. That's why I think it would have been nice of them to separate the timelines right from the get-go. Obviously I'm looking at this with 20/20 hindsight, and I'm not critical of anyone for trying to make everything fit. At the same time, the original Clone Wars timeline doesn't have room for Anakin to have a Padawan. It just doesn't. It can't be condensed into the few months at the beginning of the war, either, at least not without losing most of its integrity. A lot of headaches could have been saved if they had admitted as much from the beginning.
     
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  18. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Some people read magazines on the toilet.

    But for Lucas, those moments of contemplation are when his "true vision(s)" spring forth.
     
  19. Mat Skywalker

    Mat Skywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 8, 2005
    That's what makes him a true artist
     
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  20. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011

    But Stewjon and Skywalker wine didn't contradict anything and are hilarious.
     
  21. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Canon is serious business.
     
  22. Mat Skywalker

    Mat Skywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 8, 2005
    It's super cereal you guys

    [​IMG]

    Cereal business indeed
     
  23. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    But what I would give for a little continuity.

    [​IMG]

    They don't get how frustrating it can be when one canon no longer works with another canon.
     
  24. Mat Skywalker

    Mat Skywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 8, 2005
    I know I seen a joke similar to that somewhere....:p
     
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  25. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Glad I'm not the only one.