Discussion in 'Literature' started by sabarte, May 12, 2008.
still waiting for Caedus to be unveiled as Jaacen.
Agreed. An Apology should be canon. And as a sidenote, this year's April Fools' needs to be that awesome.
Okay, I could buy that. At least it would mean it wasn't Jacen that suddenly just went off the rails.
From now on, I'm choosing to believe that Krell was one of C'baoth's padawans.
Speaking of that, they made C'baoth way too young. He was only 43 in Outbound Flight, and yet he's continuously referred to as "the old Jedi!" Furthermore, since he became a Knight at 21 and died at 43, he couldn't possibly have trained that many Padawans--that leaves him only 22 years.
That is plenty of time for a Jedi Master deeply in touch with the Force. Especially if one does away with useless tradition and dogma. ....ugh, he'd say something like that but sounding ten times more superior. I mean a few weeks into Outboundflight and he can't even leave people to decorate as they will? He jst turns the ship into his private kingdom?
While I originally wasn't a fan of C'baoth being so young in Outbound Flight, I've actually come to sorta enjoy learning that even as a youngster, he was already that full of himself, and that he didn't just become a cranky old man later in his life but was born that way.
Didn't he seem pretty normal in Cloak of Deception? I always felt like Zahn just got lazy in OF and went eh, whatever, I'll just write him the same as his insane clone.
Clone doubles would indeed make the post-NJO era less painful. But the most important thing is that post-Palpatine Sith are Siith.
I barely remember him from Cloak of Deception but yeah, I think so.
I hated Outbound Flight. Zahn seemed less interested in actually telling a story than in showcasing C'baoth's ego and showcasing how much everyone loved Thrawn.
That's like his MO.
Yeah, I know.
No stories, just several Thrawn showcases.
C'baoth's antics were at least amusing, in a "Damn. Really?" kind of way.
I was confused by that as well. A little pig-headed eccentricity in OF would have been fine. He didn't seem off his rocker in CoD, but he was practically worse in OF than TTT.
Honestly, if Lucas should have made any rule for the EU, he should have put a moratorium on authors creating bad-apple prequel-era Jedi. It detracts from Vader, and it detracts from Obi-Wan's waxing romantic about the Jedi glory days in ANH. Bad-apple Jedi as a result of Vader's downfall and the Empire's rise, post-ROTS? Fine. But at this point angsty prequel-era Jedi and ex-Padawan drop-outs are a dime a dozen.
And then he should have still given us Dooku.
Just for the lulz.
You've always got Ahsok... oh wait. But no, there's still Barri... bleh...
Don't worry they'll be in Rebels somehow.
I thought the whole point of the prequel Jedi was to show that they had fallen from that golden age that Obi-Wan is wistfully remembering. The golden age of the Jedi would never have been destroyed by the Sith.
But....how could Obi-Wan fondly remember something he never witnessed?
I had been under the impression the Jedi had gotten too involved in politics, as opposed to taking a 180 to the Dark Side.
Or another lie to draw Luke into the fold?
Do they have to make everything he says in the OT a lie?
He's remembering a thousand generation long tradition that was abruptly destroyed (granted, the EU ended it a few other times apparently to interrupt those thousand generations). Fallen doesn't necessarily mean they've fallen to the dark side, merely lost their way...
I'm not sure where we're getting this idea that Obi-Wan is lying about this. That the Jedi were in a golden age before Vader was purely fan supposition:
For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times, before the Empire.
As far as Obi-Wan's recollections of the Jedi...from my "certain point of view" he told the truth. They were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Their missions prior to the Clone War involved mediating between disputing factions on various Republic planets and helping them come to an agreement. They were sent by the Chancellor and the Senate on these missions.
It was only during the war that they became soldiers, and Mace pointed out to Palpatine that they were absolutely not equipped to fill that role.
An occasional full-of-himself Jedi like C'baoth or Krell means nothing in regards to the overall mission of the Order, in fact, as far as I'm concerned their personalities did not stop them from helping fulfill the Order's mission, although I'd keep both of them on the "justice" side as neither were diplomats. ('You tribal leaders are being given the opportunity to stop arguing over that last 20th of an acre of land and who stole the matriarch's crock pot last week. Play nicely with the grown ups or we'll bring in Krell for aggressive negotiations. That is all.')
In the show, especially in latter seasons, Filoni had a very Zahn-esque manner of sacrificing story for characters, either in elevating characters he loved (Ahsoka and the clones) or pissing on the ones he doesn't like (the Jedi in general and Obi-Wan in particular). He even flat-out said that the point of the final season 5 arc was to "show how far the Jedi had fallen". (LOL, I see what you did there, Filoni.)
I enjoyed the Umbara arc but in retrospect the agenda is obvious. "Look at that big meanie Jedi picking on the clones." I fell for it the first time I watched it too, but...yeah. I like the clones just fine but I'm not sure why that was necessary.
The thing about those "bad" Jedi is that Krell, C'baoth, and Barriss are in the minority. TCW branded Dooku as a moustache-twirling villain but he was never that in the movies. The cackling, crazy Jedi who just so happen to still be Jedi are few and far between–even including Sora Bulq that's still only four out of the thousands that existed. Think about the likes of Lorana Jinzler, Darsha Assant, Qui-Gon Jinn, Kit Fisto, Anoon Bondara, Tahl, etc. These are all the good Jedi that Obi-Wan was remembering in ANH. The kind of people that left the galaxy a little tidier than they found it. Even if ultimately was in vain because of the Jedi Purge, they still chose to do good and help people without question or concern for themselves.
In my opinion, C'baoth should have been portrayed as a "bunny-ears lawyer" archetype, one who somehow remains faithfully employed because he's just that good at what they do. A sarcastic badass? yes. The way he was depicted in Outbound Flight? no. It undermined his character somehow, and, in truth, the way he behaves in that books makes you question the lucidity of the Jedi Council.
To all you little bad-mouthing ants:
Our lord C'baoth is the greatest Jedi and negotiator of all time. Of all time. Do you think that the Jedi should not use their powers as efficiently as possible? Do you think that it is nobler to take your time to free one slave when you can just take over the whole kingdom, change the laws to forbid slavery and then leave the stinky peasants to continue their lives in peace? Do you think it's better to try to talk to war-mongering leaders when you can just frighten them to accept the terms that are best for everyone?
The Jedi Council never said anything to him because they were afraid. Afraid to see how they couldn't save more people, afraid to find out how they were simply a band-aid to the deeply sick galaxy, afraid of the truth.
Shame on you all.
Yay AVPS reference!