Lit A/V Clone Wars Continuity Discussion (Spoilers Allowed)

The Jedi had nothing to do with the law-making process. They followed the instructions of the Senate and the Chancellor regarding what missions were ended around the Republic.

As far as their getting fooled--yeah, they absolutely did. I would argue that Anakin was in a much better position to see through Palpatine than Anakin was, given that Anakin was closer to him.

But that aside...since when does getting duped make them to blame for their own demise?

 

You're right, I don't.

And it wasn't "predetermined" because Palpatine always had choices. He could have decided not to kill the Jedi at any time.

Anakin also could have decided not to help Palpatine out.

As far as "tragedy," I hear that word batted around a lot regarding Anakin and Padme in ROTS. I don't know or care what the literary definition of a "tragedy" is, but it seems an indication of something I'm supposed to feel sad about.

Which to me precludes the idea that the Jedi had a hand in this in any way. If they had, it would not be a tragedy, it would be a simple case of choices and consequences.

 

Well, if you want to go back far enough, he and Plagueis together hatched the scheme to infiltrate and take over the government.

Are we going to blame the Senate and/or the regular people who voted for him, not knowing what he was?

 

No, we continue to blame the Jedi Order for becoming a tool of the said corrupt Senate. They're Jedi, not police officers.

Why did they not step up earlier? Why did they allow themselves to be limited to stopping what only the Republic approved of? Why did they become soldiers for a Republic over an issue which was really between the people of the galaxy and not for them to dictate the outcome? Why did they not stop Palpatine stripping away the freedoms of the galaxy one day at a time? Why did they agree that the ends justified the means for thirteen years?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

That's extremely displaced blame. Instead of blaming the Senate for voting Palpatine in, or better yet, blaming Palpatine himself for, as you said, stripping away the galaxy's freedoms, you want to blame the Jedi for "allowing it"? For not being omniscient enough to see what was happening?

Why are Palpatine and the Senate considered toddlers who cannot be held responsible for their own behavior?

I'm not even sure what "stopping Palpatine" would look like, other than the scene in his office in ROTS, and we know how well that turned out.

 

If the Senate is corrupt then why are the Jedi beholden to it? Why did they only love against Dictator Palpatine when his religious preferences were confirmed?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Maybe there's an EU source on this but I assume they have been working for the Senate for years, and the Senate were their funding source. I'm not sure exactly what else they were supposed to do--sell mind tricks on the streets?

That misses the point anyway. Why are the Jedi being held responsible for Palpatine's behavior by being held responsible for the downfall of the Republic?

Why are the Senate and Palpatine--especially Palpatine, given that the Senate could not really know what Palpatine was, any more than the Jedi could--not being held responsible for their own behavior?

 

That's the point - they're not. The Jedi are propping up their bad decisions. Decisions which they should have been held responsible for by being allowed to fall. They're allowing the Senate to become more and more insulated from their decisions because the Jedi fix it. This makes for a weak government, weak institutions, corrupt and destructive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Because the Jedi are enabling them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

More or less they are absolving them of any consequences of their actions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I'm not buying that.

Each person is responsible for his or her own behavior. Period. The end.

Palpatine was an adult who can make his own choices.

The Senate were adults who could make their own choices.

Blaming the Jedi is both scapegoating, and assuming that Palpatine was a toddler who, if he has a tantrum, just needs Mommy and Daddy Jedi to put him down for a nap.

"Enabling" is usually used to refer to an alcoholic or a drug addict who has a person buying their substance or covering their ass somehow.

It is not helpful to the addict when someone does that, but at the end, it is not the "enabler's" responsibility to get the addict clean. Only the addict can do that.

And the analogy does not work here anyway, because addiction is a disease, and Palpatine is not diseased.

 

The Senate is making bad decisions.

The Jedi are letting them rather than bringing them up on it. They are dying for it. Unnecessarily.

The people are unable to do anything about it because the Senate is feeding them propaganda, propaganda the Jedi condone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

The Senate and the Senate alone is responsible for bad decisions that they make.

 

Only if they face the consequences.

Which they don't.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

They still made the decisions. How does not facing consequences absolve them of responsibility for decisions that they make?

Is a shoplifter not to be blamed for stealing something unless the police interfere?

Are people not responsible for making good decisions as long as they know how to make bad ones without getting caught?