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Lit Clone Wars Continuity Discussion (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by sabarte, May 12, 2008.

  1. QuentinGeorge Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2003
    star 5
    I beg to differ.

    EDIT: Yeah, Jan 2009. Seem it is Wiker and Thompson instead of Wallace and Pena though.

    Still, gives them time to do another continuity clean up....
  2. TogashiAikune Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2004
    star 2
    Amazon.ca has a listing for "The Clone Wars Campaign Guide" for 1/09/09 by Rodney Thompson and JD Wiker.
  3. dizfactor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 5
    Well, I'll be darned. There it is. January 2009 is not far away.

    Anyway, if it's not coming out until then, I'm sure it's going to incorporate the animated movie material. Besides, given the current approach to RPG materials for Saga Edition, most of it is probably not timeline-specific.
  4. Fettster Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2003
    star 3
    Well, now that we've all pointed out what diz missed... [face_plain]
  5. Excellence Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 7

    So . . . Anakin's a knight a bit earlier? Ok. And this affects my the entire space-time continuum how exactly? What's the big deal?
  6. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    True, but I remain unaccountably optimistic at PoD and Revelation and Invincible, and the retcons in Revelation were not so immense as to shuffle about three years of the timeline.

    But, I may recall something, here. Isn't it better that Jedi Trial is earlier, because then there's more time for the Halycon/Horn mess to fix something?

    But everything without Anakin/Obi-Wan in remains where it is.

    But, even then, Venators were newly commission by month 19 of the war. This doesn't mean the story takes place especially early...? If that's the holding point, then everything pre-Battle of Duro stays the same. No?

    Ex: It has the possibility to move everything pre-30 months ABG involving Anakin and Obi-Wan very far forward, as Anakin is a Padawan in all of those... which is complicated and entirely unnecessary. If someone from LFL could clarify this life would be much more pleasant. Surely they're aware of the issue and should at least comment on it.
  7. sithreaper Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2004
    star 3
    Well I?m pretty sure the clone wars TV is going to drastically alter the following things

    How Anakin got his scar
    I think we will get a third depiction of the battle of Courascant

    Everything else can pretty much get reshuffled easily enough, we will just have to ignore minor continuity errors such as the length of Anakins hair, the dates, the mentioning of events that have been reshuffled etc. We should all be used to it by now anyway.
  8. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
    In light of all the recent discussion about keeping things more measured and civil here, wouldn't it be a good idea to maybe give this thread a less...inflammatory title? "Possible Clone Wars Timeline Alterations In Progress" or some such? Seeing something characterized as an implosion before even entering the thread is just begging for "OMG!!! LFL hates the fans!!! Let's riot in the streets!!!"
  9. jSarek VIP

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2005
    star 4
    No, we don't. I don't read the secondary material from those other franchises BECAUSE they have no standing. If Star Wars ultimately gets treated the same way, then I won't bother with it, either.

    I haven't lost faith in the skills of the authors, particularly those of our favorite retcon artists, to forge something salvageable from the changes this series and the live-action series will create; but ultimately, if they don't make a solid effort, than neither shall I. I may be going to grad school soon; no better time to wrap up a hobby gone sour than the present.

    QFT.

    While I can't speak for Dan, don't underestimate Abel's ability to accept the fluidity of canon.

    Well, anyone at Celebration IV can attest that Abel has a soft spot for Viandante del Cielo . . . ;-)

    Aye. On the upside, at least some of the people trying to press the issue will do so by opening and sharing a bottle of Viandante del Cielo first, so either way, they win. ;-)
  10. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2005
    star 5
    I...am currently working on Anakin Skywalker's Wookieepedia article.

    And now I feel the need to shop for hair dye. [face_plain]
  11. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    I don't put it past Abel to think up some kind of time warp that causes the Clone Wars to really last six years due to the shroud of the dark side distorting the time space continuum. 8-}

    The crazy thing is I'm actually half serious. :p
  12. jSarek VIP

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    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2005
    star 4
    Just so long as you aren't shopping for Kool-Aid.
  13. Excellence Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 7

    You're point is valid, Sinrebirth. Don't worry, the fans will make enough noise, and the names will discuss it back in time.

    Personally, will it ruin all those Republic-class comics I bought and read for years? Not at all. Skywalker gets knighted half a year before the movie. Moving that back changes what exactly? It was ridiculous he expected to be a master in title in the movie, only 3yrs since the last movie and barely out of his teens. But that was merely a rivet to add to his "off screen" issues with the council.

    I will say one thing . . .

    The forum banner is hilarious -- You got served! [face_laugh]

    . . . [face_thinking]

    Yeah, why not. [face_laugh]
  14. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

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    Member Since:
    May 9, 2000
    star 6
    I think longer Clone Wars are a good thing, myself. They make Ben and Owen's OT ages more believable, for one thing.

    And Voren's dating systems in the (New) Essential Chronology (the only in-universe fixers on relative dates) are up the wazoo anyway. Bantam isn't quite in the right place (in terms of internal chronology, the X-wing comic is still in 4 ABY, for one thing, and Leia's still "not quite thirty" in Children of the Jedi, all of which drags the dating issues between Bantam and the NJO - and the NJO and "Legacy of the Force" - back into the right place).

    Just remember, kids, it wasn't until around the time of RotS that the Clone Wars ended in 19 BBY. We survived TPM shuttling around the timeline a bit, too, and Obi-Wan's age there being a bit of a bungee. The question isn't "is the timeline karked?" - the timeline is primarily an OOU construct - it's "what specifically needs to be changed to fix it?!"

    :D

    - The Imperial Ewok
  15. HedecGa Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2006
    star 4
    Very true. If ever there were a time when LFL could have said "Well, EU fans, it's been a fun ride, but Mr. Lucas has returned to the franchise to take back the reins so we're going to have a fresh start and erase everything you know and love" it would have been with TPM.

    Continuity inconsistencies don't bother me, in and of themselves. Heck, even within George's own six-movie vision, look at all the inconsistencies! So, that doesn't keep me up at nights. It's the attitudes behind those things. It's the disrespect for what's come before because it's not how you would have done it and you deciding you'll just "not look" at those things when writing your story or, worse, look and just not care. That's what bothers me. Yes, GL has the right to do what he wants and, like the PT, he'll just go tromping through EU canon and people will scramble behind him to make it all make sense. I truly believe that there's actually been times when his tromping has helped fix previous continuity errors, or at least opened doors that others could use to fix those errors. Hope is not lost.

    Again, we made it through the PT and Leland didn't have to hit the big "delete" button on the Holocron, (and that would have been the time that most franchises would have authorized something like that) so I think we should be safe here, too, in terms of total canon meltdown. Besides, the CW has a definite outcome that GL put into place in the first place with RotS. We're talking about a couple years of possible discrepancies. Look at how many stories have been crammed in the Ep4-5 timeline. It's a mess, but continuity, for the most part, is perfectly fine. The CW is a pretty small portion of history here. It's not like GL has decided to tell the further adventures of Luke Skywalker post-Endor. Then we'd really be karked.
  16. Jmacq1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 4
    Probably. Though then again it looks like he might have it at the beginning of the show, so we might not actually see it on-screen.

    Doubtful, at least not anytime soon. The Battle of Coruscant is all but the end of the Clone Wars. Unless they're going to suggest that the Battle of Coruscant actually took several years or there were multiple Battles of Coruscant, we wouldn't see the Battle of Coruscant in this series until (basically) it ended. Right now I think the plan is to keep it running as long as possible.

  17. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2005
    star 5
    Not quite, provided that Hidalgo, Peña, Wallace, Ostrander, and Luceno stay in the game.

    Still, above all, this kind of hoodoo is beyond disappointing. Inclusionists are shafted, constantly, and it's a dangerous type of EU fan to be. No one else seems to understand just how damn cool it is to read about a villainess in comics from the eighties, then pick up a few novels from the late 2000s and read her continuing story.

    No one else really appreciates it when you can read about a child in a a junior novel, then watch a film from 2005 and say "there she is, all grown up."

    People seem to be indifferent towards continuity, but they also seem to not quite fully grasp what's at stake here. To paraphrase Joni Mitchell, "they won't know what they've got 'till it's gone." What's more, paradise is getting paved.

    And I don't see why adhering to continuity is such a bad thing. I mean, did shuffling the events of Jedi vs. Sith really improve Path of Destruction? Would it really have hurt to follow the same story? Hell, I for one would have relished the chance to see a novelised adaptation of that story. Instead, arbitrary hackery abounded.

    I don't mind when mistakes are made. It's a huge universe, things are bound to be overlooked. But there's a reason Abel G. Peña's work is so well loved. It's because he cares. Daniel Wallace cares. John Ostrander cares. At least, that's the impression that I get. Everyone who read Show of Force should have enjoyed seeing Depa Billaba post Shatterpointery. We're obviously a long way off from that kind of thing being the norm, but by God, people...seamless integration, across mediums. This thing can work. It has. If something's rubbish, people like Peña and Wallace can and will retroactively improve it. Yes, it's possible, it's been done to the Jedi Prince books. Sure, the books themselves are still stupid, but when you take them in the greater context of trying to overthrow Isard et al, they're enhanced. Greatly.

    Now it seems you can't trust anything. Most stuff you can read and say for sure "this happened." It has the luxury of being told from an out-of-universe perspective, and therefore, it can be and is the definite truth of what happened at that time, in that place, in the "Star Wars" universe. Unless the story is told from an in-universe perspective, it's nothing like real world history, and the multiple interpretations of certain events. It's the truth, unquestionably. Things like Jedi vs. Sith, however, are thrown into a gray area and that, at least in my mind, damages that work. It's not definitive. And yet something like Splinter of the Mind's Eye still is, despite being adapted several times by different authors.

    I don't even know what I'm saying anymore. I just feel...ripped off. Completely and utterly. And no, this isn't an overreaction--the Databank alone has done enough damage already, without the damn film. The fact that I'm a sucker for anything with the "Star Wars" label on it prevents me from boycotting the wretched thing, but...would that I could.

    (PS: I had to do this bit by bit due to a bung computer, thus the amount of edits)
  18. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    So they dodge the grief of fans by saying the mistake was made 5 years ago?o_O

    I'm sure Tartakovsky will appreciate that.

    If it plays out this way, LFL would be doing "flow walking" of their own...calling something they endorse 5 years ago a "mistake" now.

    I wonder if there has been some job rollover since then.


  19. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    I agree with Cooper. The title of this thread should be changed. We don't need inflammatory titles to discuss a new development. Furthermore, the title is overly dramatic and implies that everything we know about Star Wars is about to change.

    There is nothing wrong with discussing any changes to the Clone Wars time line, but at least do it in a bit more constructive way.

    --Adm. Nick

  20. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    With all civility...

    I disagree.
  21. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    JM, not one to disagree unnecessarily, but we have a few events where Anakin's rank is specified possibly shifted forward, and Jedi Trial possibly moved to fit. It may be moved to slightly after the Battle of Duro, dependent on the Venator-class destroyers being introduced.

    This is not, in any shape or manner, a continuity implosion. 30 months worth of events at worst will need work, or as little as possible. It can be taken as the next in a list of issues people have with continuity, yes, but even then PoD changed JvS a little, and the retcons in Revelation simply filled in a few gaps. Little else. Maybe we're seeing the comics given a different continuity ranking of import. Who knows.

    But we haven't had confirmation that film canon is a parallel universe to the EU, at all.

    I agree with Coop, and Nick.

    There are still numerous stories in the Clone Wars which aren't going to be effected, and until we know exactly when the new date for Anakin's Knighting is, and when the film is set, we can't measure how much this is going to do. Seriously.
  22. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Hmm... two thoughts occur to me if everything does end up being compact down...

    1. Does this mean the whole three million clones stuff only applied to the first few months and that there was actually a much bigger Grand Army and that all the talk of 'wars on thousands of worlds' will take place in the subsequent period? :p

    2. Will we actually get to see Victory-class Star Destroyers for a decent portion of the Clone Wars now? [face_praying]

    :p
  23. BobaMatt TFN EU Staff

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    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2002
    star 6
    See? This could be a good thing...
  24. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    Thank you Sin...but the point I was making was not that the title of the thread wasn't open to discussion...it could be totally wrong...but that doesn't mean it should be "stricken".

    If you don't agree with the reasoning for why the OP titled the thread as such, then present your views.

    To say "i think the title is wrong...remove it" is a gross abuse...and if it were to change now...after a number of mods have already posted in this thread...would be even more disturbing.

    You can disagree...but you didn't start this thread...you don't get to pick the title.

    Is it provocative? Certainly. But we all hope our titles generate interest or concern or delight or bemusement.

    This is obviously a title to flag concern.

    It's tastefully worded...it'd could've been much more crass.

    It doesn't bode well in a discussion about reto-activily altering a fictional universe when we want to reto-actively alter reality.

    It's what it is...deal with it.
  25. Ulicus Lit'ari

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 6
    :eek: [face_mischief]:D

    Impressive... most impressive.

    Ha, as awesome as that sounds right now, however, I won't hold you to anything. :p

    At the minute I'm in the giddy pre-Star Wars movie phase so *ANY* thought of seeing the full thing makes me weep with tears of joy. The fact that Lucas is only really involved at a production and "story idea" level makes me feel a lot more comfortable too.

    Seriously, this may look bad for the current canon right now (and it may very well be bad for the current canon) but... for the future of the GFFA - if not the present - as a whole, I think this will be a springboard into awesome. Even so, I can totally see and understand why people are upset and the points FourDot raised are good.

    And people really shouldn't get my hopes up about the possibility of pushing back TPM and AotC in the timeline and making the Clone Wars a few years longer. In my "Movie Only" timeline, I've got the Clone Wars pegged at six-to-ten years long already :p