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Full Series --Clone Wars Season 3 Premiere Trailer Discussion--

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by IG_2000, Apr 30, 2010.

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  1. MasterSora

    MasterSora Jedi Youngling

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    May 4, 2010
    Who's to say that Force visions are so rare? I'm sure a lot of Jedi have Force visions while they dream. We only see those which are relevant to the plot.
     
  2. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2005
    They are rare, actually.
     
  3. CaptainYossarian

    CaptainYossarian Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2003
    All Jedi should be able to sense the future. Their 'power' doesn't really come into it, since specific premonitions may be delivered to them by the Force itself, rather than the individual trying to gain an insight on their own. If Ahsoka's visions are more momentous than most, I would presume it is because she is the apprentice of the Chosen One, and thus bound up in some important events.

    I also don't know why people keep banging on about Ahsoka being too powerful. Yes, she might be unusually powerful, and that's probably why, out of all the candidates, Yoda chose her to be Anakin's padawan. He wasn't going to just pick anyone to be the Chosen One's student, now was he?
     
  4. Garth Maul

    Garth Maul Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    May 18, 2002
    Yes, there is Yoda's dialogue to suggest that it is fairly common for Jedi to experience visions - and there's the scene in Children of the Force where they group meditate to find the children.

    But the PT has also established that the Jedi ability to use the Force has diminished, and that mostly seems to be with respect to the foresight/vision aspect - their ability to sense the "Will of the Force". And what we see of the visions, (a) they seem to come without effort on the part of Anakin/Luke, and (b) they are always directly involving their fate or the fates of those they love.

    There's no getting away from how powerful Ahsoka is at this point, it's really a moot discussion that we won't get into here. ;)

    You have to wonder why it's her that is getting the visions - does it have to do with her death? Anakin's? A sneak attack?

    The only thing I'm going to be really scared of, and will throw up if it happens, if Ahsoka has some vision about Sidious or Anakin turning or something integral to the Sith plot. That would be super Mary Sue territory.
     
  5. Armchair_Admiral

    Armchair_Admiral Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 31, 2005
    But she's too young to keep saving the day? Even though 9-year old Anakin did it twice in one movie without the ability to fight with a lightsaber or to preform fancy acrobatics? [face_tired]
     
  6. Garth Maul

    Garth Maul Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    May 18, 2002
    Heh, I always thought Anakin should have purposely been a badass pilot and destroyed the TF ship, even as a 9-year-old, but anyways, Anakin is the Chosen One.

    Ahsoka isn't, so far as we know.

    To paraphrase The Incredibles: "once everybody is special, nobody is special."
     
  7. fanboyskywalker

    fanboyskywalker Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2008
    I hope they do a twist on it. Most of the visions we have seen come to pass, so maybe she is able to stop something... but in the end it actually makes it worse. For example, she has a vision of Anakin dying in battle... and is able to save him... but in the end he ends up wiping out the Jedi and bringing the Sith back in power so perhaps she shouldn't have done that. Of course, more fodder for Ahsoka haters, but I think something along the lines of a twist on the vision thing is what is needed. Of course, that would actually require some clever writing so I guess that's too much to ask.
     
  8. JediBendu

    JediBendu Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 1999
    Exactly, Yoda doesn't seem surprised when Luke gets visions of the future. And we've opnly really followed two Jedi characters are protagonists, and both of them had visions. Plus Yoda. Sure, the EU might say it is ultra rare but that means nothing in the Clone Wars. For all we know Jedi could be having visions all the time, but we don't really see many of them when they sleep and wake up with a start.

    Heck, Vader expects Luke to have visions of his friends in danger, otherwise torturing Han and not asking him any questions would be pointless - unless we believe that Vader was sure that Anakin's son would automatically inherit his "rare" talent.

    Though interestingly Anakin and Luke both have visions about specific people, people they care about - I wonder if the specificity of their visions might be tied to the fact that they have strong emotional attachments. If this is the case, it would make sense for Ahsoka to have similar visions as she has similar attachment issues growing.

    Absolutely, but as a die-hard star wars fan, but very casual EU fan, it didn't seem overpowered to me that Ahsoka would have visions of the future. It just seems like something that Jedi do.
     
  9. Garth Maul

    Garth Maul Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    May 18, 2002
    It's hard to tell how exactly the Force has diminished for the Jedi in PT.

    It seems like the day-to-day use of the Force for combat hasn't been effective, what I would call the "Living Force" around the immediate environment. Although, there have been several examples of the Jedi not being able to sense danger when you think they would (this could be explained away by saying it's for the purpose of building conflict, similar to Spidey's inconsistent Spidey-sense).

    And someone like Obi-Wan can't sense any duplicity on the part of the Mandalorians.

    But certainly with respect to visions, and the issues of Anakin/Sidious/Dooku/Sifo-Dyas/the clone army/TCW, the Jedi haven't been able to use their historical foresight to plan and solve problems.

    Yet in Children of the Force, they are able to sense the Force-sensitive children in danger.

    So yeah, a little inconsistent. :)
     
  10. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Nov 6, 2005
    That's what I'm afraid of.
     
  11. Garth Maul

    Garth Maul Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    May 18, 2002
    "I'm not afraid!"

    "You will be.....you will be." [face_laugh]

     
  12. fistofan1

    fistofan1 Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 8, 2009
    Well, in Children of the Force, they had to sit down and try really hard to get those visions. They didn't just hop in their fighters and use the Force to plug in the correct coordinates.

    Anakin, on the other hand, could do it in his sleep. I-)

    So, I guess it just depends on which Jedi the Force allows to recieve visions easily.
     
  13. WookieeWarrior9

    WookieeWarrior9 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Sure, it's just an attribute of Force-users. Think of a basketball player- some are better at free throws, rebounds, etc.
     
  14. rumblewagon

    rumblewagon Force Ghost star 4

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    Sep 24, 2004
    Armchair Admiral, thank you for a voice of reason and common-sense amidst all the hysterical and indignant clamoring about Ahsoka being a super-powered "Mary Sue."

    At 9 years old with only pod-racing as his experience, Anakin is able to complete all of those heroics...
    ...yet at 14 years old, having been formally trained in the ways of the Force and the lightsaber at the Jedi Temple since age 3, Ahsoka somehow is not believable in being able to pull off the feats that she does?

    I'm beginning to think this all boils down to sheer sexism![face_frustrated]
     
  15. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Nov 6, 2005
    Rumblewagon, I know you're an Ahsoka fan, but others have different opinions, too. I have to agree with Armchair Admiral.
     
  16. Tzizvvt78

    Tzizvvt78 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 12, 2009
    Although having an overt knack for super-special intuition is a staple in Mary-Sue fanfics, I've never heard of this "rarity" of having Force-visions. Good thing I don't follow the EU too closely.:p

    My best hope is that the Force is giving her hints to kill Anakin and she does the opposite of what it shows.;)
     
  17. Garth Maul

    Garth Maul Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    May 18, 2002
    No, it boils down to "if all Jedi can do what Anakin can do, how is he special?"
     
  18. Drewton

    Drewton Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 8, 2009
    The problem I have with Ahsoka is not so much the feats she does, but her attitude (disrespect, to name on example), being the apprentice of Anakin Skywalker, the Chosen One, when we've never heard about her before, and particularly in Season One, always being right. Her character screams Mary Sue.

    Winning a podrace isn't something you need formal Jedi training for, especially if you're the Chosen One and it's the will of the Force. Anakin didn't even destroy the Trade Federation cruiser at the end intentionally.

    Justifying her feats by saying that Anakin was able to do them also isn't a good excuse with him being the most powerful Force user to ever exist.
     
  19. rezpen

    rezpen Jedi Master star 4

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    May 4, 2010
    Nice! I don't see why she can't go to Dagobah, I know in the EU they say Dagobah was one of the planets also erased from the Jedi Archives like Kamino, maybe they can have an episode like Lightsaber Lost that teams her up with Yoda tracking down the lost planets? Maybe she goes to Dagobah and has a trial in the cave like Luke does where she confronts her dark side? On the forcecast they said she would become more ane more like her master, I want to see her tempted by the dark side!
     
  20. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2005
    I'm not liking this idea at all.
     
  21. XCell

    XCell Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Apr 7, 2004
    Midichlorian count, no dad, and raised outside the Temple. But I agree with this; Anakin is the 'chosen one', he's special. Plus he blew up the Trade ship with Artoo's help, he's a great pilot and mechanic. But notice no one has brought up him being the 'chosen one' in this show?

    For Ahsoka, I'll say it like I've said before, it was such a huge waste to make her so young and have her be a Padawan fresh out of the Temple. We hardly see her becoming stronger and braver, trying, failing, succeeding to hone her skills, and just learning how things work. We don't see her growing like a student should. She just showed up, already strong, already like Anakin, ready for anything. It's boring and feels unnatural that she's like Anakin and so strong and smart from the beginning.

    And I've thought of something about her seeing Aurra.. could it be Ahsoka might remember/recognize Aurra from when she was a Jedi? Perhaps she even befriended or looked up to her? I dunno if the years would add up, but it would fit with her look of remorse when Aurra's ship crashes, and her being scared of seeing Aurra again.
     
  22. JediBendu

    JediBendu Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 1999
    Because he is powerful, he's strong, fast and highly dangerous. But ultimately he's the vergence in the force because events transpire around him to destroy the Sith. He's as powerful as Jedi master when he's in his early 20s, able to take on Dooku one on one, but his specialness is not in that he can crush star destroyers, it's that he loves passionately - love turns him to the Dark Side and love destroys the Sith.

    Ahsoka is clearly advanced, Anakin said it himself in Holocron Heist. But to keep anything that we've only seen Anakin do and ring-fence it off as an example of why he is the chosen one is to fail to understand why he is the chosen one.
     
  23. IG_2000

    IG_2000 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2008
    I think the underlying message in the dreams coming true in Star Wars is "if you obsess over something bad that hasn't happened yet, it will come true." The vision of Padme would have never come true if Anakin hadn't had the vision in the first place.
     
  24. XCell

    XCell Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Apr 7, 2004
    JediBendu: I think that's a good point about Anakin. But I stick to the opinion that youngling/Padawans (Ahsoka) shouldn't be as skilled/powerful as Jedi Masters. If they are, there should be some explanation, and I don't think one mention of 'advanced skill' is enough.
     
  25. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2005
    Oh, I agree completely. They written Ahsoka terribly, and made her completely advanced for her age. She's a mary sue, and now with her Force visions, she'll be even more powerful than before. The reason behind all this is because Ahsoka is only a Padawan. Besides Anakin, for the obvious reasons, we normally would see Jedi who is a Knight or a Master, someone older, that have those visions. For Luke having visions, he is the chosen one's son. As said in sourcebooks, Force visions are prone to him because of that. Ahsoka, however, is this "ultimate" 14-year-old character, that is completely overpowered for her age. She has no background or family for that matter, and clearly is above all poorly written.
     
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