PT Clone Wars - WHY DIDN'T THE SEPARATISTS INVEST IN MORE ADVANCED DROIDS?!

In the Clone Wars at times the bulk of the Separatist Droids was usually the dumb-ass ROGER ROGER B1 Battle Droids and a good handful of Super Battle Droids; both being rather easy fodder for Clone Troopers and Jedi for the matter; BUT THERE WERE ALSO THE DROIDEKA'S, COMMANDO DROIDS, IG-110 LIGHTSABER DROIDS, ASSASSIN DROIDS, IG-100 MAGNAGUARDS TO NAME A FEW WHICH were more intelligent and deadlier than the ROGER ROGER B1 Battle Droids; and putting aside one time on the Invisible Hand where Count Dooku admonished General Grievous for mistreating his Battle Droid crew and even remarking ironically 'Grievous - those Battle Droids are expensive!' Isn't that ironic? I mean Count Dooku is supposed to be a VERY WEALTHY individual himself being the heir of the wealth of his family and aristocratic entitlements on Serrenno YET he's telling Grievious that the Battle Droids are expensive! Pretty sure if you don't want to just invest in regular ROGER ROGER B1 Battle Droids - why not just then replace them all with Droideka's for starters eh? Or Commando Droids eh? I mean sure very experienced and Powerful Jedi Masters will still clear BUT it will be harder for the Clones and well lesser Jedi to deal with these Droids ... OR even invest and combine elements of the Droideka, Commando Droid and IG-100 Magnaguards together into one Battle Droid and hence it would be tougher eh? YET until the end of the Clone Wars we still see ROGER ROGER B1 Battle Droids and Super Battle Droids as the regulars on the field... given SURELY Count Dooku had plenty of wealth ... PLUS the Trade Federation and other factions of the Separatists ...

 

Even if he's rich, you can't expect Dooku to pay for literally billions of highly advanced droids out of his own pocket.

The CIS probably didn't have nearly as much funds as the Republic. And they did have plenty of more advanced droifs, as you said, but the majority were B1 because, in any war, you don't have your entire arsenal consist of the best you have. B1s are designed to overwhelm in numbers and while they don't even begin to compare to a Jedi, they're probably pretty dangerous even to an average soldier.

 

I understand what you mean - BUT then again suppose you got 1 Quadrillion B1 Roger Roger Battle Droids - when Count Dooku could have suppose ordered 100K Droideka's which would have provided enough firepower to make even the average ARC Trooper curse out 'I'm Nerf-Fragged for good...' or suppose you know atleast 1000 Commando Droids on a major infiltration mission or something rather than 1 Quadrillion Roger Roger B1 Battle Droids ...

Or perhaps the EU Guide-book is exaggerated in its claim given it was stated Count Dooku being one of the wealthiest and influential aristocratic beings in the Galaxy could 'field an entire army by his own resources...'

I mean also - not that I'm Trollinating BUT BUT with Count Dooku he did 'spread some fear down the spines' of many when he claimed he wanted buy more than 10K of the JK-13 Jedi-Killer Droids which cost 80K CREDITS per unit alone ... and yet whilst Count Dooku really was bluffing about - and the problems with the JK-13 Jedi-Killer Droids - they could still in prototype form defeat Droideka's and ARC's troopers and even give Jedi Masters a hard time ... SO ...

Plus - didn't the Separatists apply for a Credit Loan extension just prior to the Bombing of Coruscant - when the Republic and some Separatists considered Peace Negotiations and how Count Dooku paid 'lip service' to it? Plus how it appeared the REPUBLIC was abit in debt by that time when Palpatine was debating on whether or not to 'deregulate the banks...' and I mean SURELY Count Dooku - being still influential and the Head of the Separatists - he could have just asked San Hill for help - as San Hill was the chairman of the IGBC PLUS how Count Dooku could have just 'FORCED' any major Galactic Bank to bend to his will and give him the Credits he needed if he had to eh? But that's just me wondering if you mention 'out of pocket...'

 

Think about this, how fast could the B-1 be produced in comparison with these other droids? If you'll allow me to draw a parallel from earth history, the US tank strategy in the later days of world war II was to overwhelm the German tanks. The M4 Sherman, while powerful when first introduced, was outclassed by later German models but, could be built far faster. Maybe that was the philosophy they were going with, faster production times. The B-1 was obviously good enough. It convincingly, in universe, kept the war going for three years. That would not be possible if that model was completely useless. Also the whole war was a ploy by the chancellor to weaken the Republic so that the Empire could be formed, not to destroy the Republic. If this other droids were mass produced maybe they tip the balance but, remember Palpatine was playing both sides. He could have made sure that the more deadlier droids were kept to specialized roles rather than front line for fear that the Separatist might actually be too successful.

 

I understand what you mean and YES - also I do read and have read of the Sherman Tank production and such in WWII and other factors BUT then again the Sherman could be upgraded eh? I mean later models of the Sherman had the 76mm M1 gun and the Israeli's were able to upgrade the Shermans they had to M50 and M51 SUPER SHERMANS with higher velocity 75 and 105mm gun cannons that allowed them to still fend off and fight in the 1967 6-Day War and such ...

BUT anyways - back to the B1 Roger Roger! Battle Droids - true - BUT at the very least perhaps even give the B1 Battle Droids a Deflector Shield or something would make it more survivable and worth your investment eh? I mean the fact how the Separatists tried means to kill off Jedi in the Clone Wars where Cad Bane himself had claimed the Separatists were paying 1 million Credits Per Head for a Dead Jedi ... and if they're bothering to do that - surely they'd want to invest their money's worth still eh?

But with Palpatine - well - I thought Count Dooku himself had ambitions and HIS OWN IDEALS AND IDEAS on how to run the Galaxy and how even in AOTC he claimed to Obi-Wan Kenobi that he must join Count Dooku's Cause and together they will destroy the Sith and rule the Galaxy and such ... and the fact in the ROTS novel Count Dooku believed he would bring Order to the Rule of the Galaxy by HUMANS ... and well ... other things ...

But I see what you mean - its just if one was in Count Dooku's shoes - I think you'd want to send perhaps 1 MILLION DROIDEKA's and perhaps 1000 IG-100 Magnaguards on invasion of a Planet System plus plenty of Tanks or Heavy-Duty Droids ... and General Grievous at the helm to get the job done than 1 Quadrillion B1 Roger Roger! Battle Droids...

 

they were pretty advanced.

 

True - BUT hey - you want our money's worth eh? If one was a shareholder or major investor or business partner - you'd want every BUCK of every BUCK you injected in the scheme or concept - same with well the Separatists given I'm sure in particular San Hill and Nute Gunray for starters they would have expected a MAJOR PAYDAY for the amount of loans and grants they pledged and offered to Count Dooku and such ... plus how Palpatine tricked them in thinking he'd reward them for their efforts ... PLUS how Count Dooku bothered to allow Lok Durd test out his Defoilator AND it was quite promising - and how Count Dooku warned him 'it had better be worth the cost...' even though Count Dooku's meant to be a very wealthy individual himself ... or then again he could have went to Prince Xizor for extra money ... as Prince Xizor was pretty wealthy himself ...

 

In reality, the CIS would have won because they could out produce the Republic. It is easier and quicker to produce replacement battle droids than clones or Jedi. The Republic would have easily been overwhelmed by sheer numbers. However the Sith wanted the war to remain a stalemate until the time they chose for the war to end which may be a reason B1s made up the bulk. In WW2 the Germans made better tanks than the Allies, but the Allies could out reproduce replacement tanks and outnumber the German tanks. B1s were probably easier, cheaper,, quicker to build, and more disposeable. In war, everything is disposable and you just don't worry if it is built to last or not because chances are it will get blown to kingdom come soon anyway.

Also many of the better droids listed never appeared in any of the live action films and should not be considered when talking about the live action films themselves. It would be like asking why ROTS didn't show rebel troops helping to defend the Jedi Temple from the clones like in Battle Front 2. Both BF2 and TCW are different interpretations with different elements added in.

 

I'm no GFFA technology expert, but I imagine they were the most advanced type of battle droids at that time.

 

Presumably, the B1's are cheaper than the commando droids and droidekas, so more were buillt.

 

A more advanced B1 would have been one without the ability to speak.

 

Still - suppose you send 2000 Droideka's OR suppose 1000 IG-100 Magnaguards ... rather than 2000 B1 ROGER ROGER Battle Droids or B2 Super Battle Droids to assault a Clone Base or invade a city; whereas the Droideka's may not have hth combat skills and such BUT SURELY they'd be able to cause quite a bit of severe damage and only very heavy firepower or a very Powerful Jedi Master could deal with them - although they'd still have to watch the spamfuls of blaster laser bolts and the fact a handful of Droideka's can make one duck for cover almost all day unless heavier weapons are brought out and even so ... its not gonna be easy ...

 

Hello again!

I mean ALSO - from what Wookiepedia stated - the Trade Federation was able to 'negotiate' a deal with the Colicoids - inventors of the Droideka's with 50 crates of raw exotic rare meats and hence they were able to get very special discounts and rates for the Droideka's which were normally costly - SO SURELY with the 'out of pocket' expenses - IF Count Dooku had to - SURELY he'd be able to 'negotiate' special rates and deals with Separatist Associates and Allies for raw materials or such if he had to eh?

 

Yes...

...yes...

...perhaps...

...but, from what you're saying, the Separatists would be trying to go for a Blitzkrieg or Lightning War. Overwhelm them with powerful attacks at such an expense. The Separatists had planets of their own, full of citizens who had nothing to do with the war. They need food, water, shelter, etc, but it's likely that many suffered because of the expenses of the war. No one could just haul out billions to fuel the war effort without taking the risk of harming their own people in long term. Dooku even had a sense of humanity in him that he didn't want innocent people to suffer from a war that had nothing to do with them.

 

Hello again! I know what you meant BUT - its just I still find it hard the fact Count Dooku; he's a VERY WEALTHY INDIVIDUAL and with the entitlements of Serreno's Aristocracy ... PLUS how he had the Banking Clan PLUS the Trade Federation - AND the fact he's the SUPREMO BOSS of the Separatists - SURELY he has all the Powers and Resources at his disposal eh? PLUS how Count Dooku is wealthy himself SURELY to manage the war and how he remarked to Palpatine once how the progress of war was as Palpatine demanded and wanted - to the point Count Dooku remarked 'I have paid for your war with my riches...' AND SURELY then Count Dooku being an influential individual and persuasive in his own right - he SURELY could have bought and paid any thug he wanted to get MORE resources without necessarily starving those whom were Pro-Separatist worlds eh? PLUS what about the De-Regulation of the Banks eh? PLUS how it was stated the Separatists got the approval for an extension to fund atleast several Million MORE Battle Droids ...

Although - where you say 'he didn't want people to suffer from a war...' BUT BUT what about THOSE WHOM HAD TO SUFFER EH? I mean he coldly remarked when the Greedy Wat Tambor was too late to escape Ryloth despite Count Dooku's demands HE LEAVE ASAP AND Count Dooku remarked the Hyena Bombers will simply BOMB RYLOTH from afar and despite how there may have been innocent civilians there ... OR where Count Dooku once sold off prisoners as slaves where he 'pretended to give them salvation...' OR where he coldly ordered Mina Bonteri's murder when she was threatening him and Palpatine's plans via 'Peace Negotiations...'

 

Why waste money on droids? They needed millions upon millions of them, and a lot of them, like your basic battle droid, was a filler to take out anything besides Jedi. Why buy advanced battles droids, when the Jedi will find a way to cut them down anyway? Money's better spent on ships, weaponry, and bribes.

 

Even with what they have it still cost a lot of money. War can be costly. VERY COSTLY.
In real life example: the F-22 raptor program cost over 66 billion dollars with each jet over a 100 million to make.
I don't know the economics in a galaxy far far away, but if it's similar to ours.....
I can imagine starships cost a lot and take a big chuck out of the budget.
In TCW it was mention the Republic was near bankruptcy. I am sure the Separatist had money issues too.

 

They were not I can tell you that.

 

Wouldn't they have loads of left over trade federation B1's?And the factories to build them.The commando droids seem to have been brand spanking new in the clone wars:the production lines would not have been fully assembled.Also:In rookies the B1's Actually retake the station and would have won if it weren't for Hevy.The commandos simply lose.

 

True - BUT BUT consider the other side of the coin - a Jedi killed - however a Padawan to a Master - that ALSO takes time for Jedi to train eh? They can't be assembled in a factory and even a VERY EXPENSIVE battle droid would be 'quicker' and 'cheaper' to be replaced compared to say a venerable Jedi Master whom was felled in the battlefields eh? Plus the fact then why don't the Separatists - given you mentioned ships - why didn't they just SECRETLY build the Death Star SOONER OR even Count Dooku 'disobey' Palpatine and ordered his own moves and Super-weapons and simply just demolish all the Republic Core Worlds and Clone Production Facilities and Coruscant sooner than later eh?

PLUS - Jedi - even the strongest and most Powerful Jedi - they are still but mortal living beings of flesh and blood; true some may be able to endure incredible amounts of injury BUT IF the fire-power was overwhelming or if it was an intense fire-power ... in the end most Jedi - look at Order 66 - otherwise even if they killed many Clones trying to kill them - a good number of Order 66 victims were Jedi and BLAST! A few blaster bolts or a spam-ful of laser bolts finished the job ... ending years of valuable precious training ...

 

Battle droids such as commado droids and lancer droids never appeared in the films, so it doesn't make sense to talk about TCW elements in a movie thread. They belong over in the TV section. As far as the films themselves are concerned, there are only B1s, B2s, and Magnaguards. As I said before, in war everything is built to be easily disposable. It was better for the Allies to have more weaker tanks than fewer stronger tanks. No matter if something is built stong or weak, ity is likely to be blown away well before it wears out.

 

And Droidekas - they're in AOTC and ROTS as well. Plus all those tanky droids we see at the Battle of Geonosis and the Battle of Kashyyyk - spider droids, crab droids, etc.

 

One thing I never got - if the Separatists - well in The Clone Wars you got the Malevolence - which was probably at who-knows-what price - yet the Separatists bothered to have it as their pinnacle of Naval Power ... so why not then chuck a few million credits onto the Droideka production eh? I mean the Trade Federation got discounts by bribing Colicoids with rare meats - and that's without talking necessarily credits so surely as Count Dooku alone has plenty of wealth to his name so ...

 

Doh, how could I forget Droidekas?

At any rate, B1s, B2s, and droidekas would make up the CIS's infantry. B1s would be rank and file light infantry while droidekas are heavy infantry. Magnagurads would be the elite gurads or imperial guard assigned to protect the higher ups in the CIS. If we include TCW commado droids, they would be special ops droids for special missions. Tank droids, spider droids, dwarf spider droids, and large tri-droids would be tanks and artillery besides the AATs. Crab droids and the small tri-droids would be anti-infantry. Hail-fire droids would be the CIS's anti-tank vehicles.

 

Well - there you have it - so why not just replace the B1 Roger Roger Battle Droids and perhaps half the Super Battle Droids (well they do have tougher armor and they've got better hth combat skills and strength compared to Roger Roger B1 Battle Droids and Clones in just regular hth combat without enhancements...)

But then why not just replace the Roger Roger B1 Battle Droids with perhaps more Tank Droids and AAT's plus perhaps with more Hail-Fire Droids or such given the firepower is considerable ... eh? Pretty sure if the Separatists still pooled in their resources for not just hordes of Roger Roger Battle Droids (putting effectiveness and atrocity factor aside) and also advanced ships and droid designs - so surely Count Dooku could have 'disobeyed' Palpatine's orders at times to 'lose battles' but instead unleash say 20K or 100K Droideka's - pretty sure he has the money to pay for it plus his influence ensures he can get whatever he wants atleast from the Pro-Separatists and Separatist allies eh?