Clonetroopers to Stormtroopers

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by merlin, Feb 2, 2003.

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  1. merlin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 1999
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    [color=663300]When do you think the Clonetroopers will turn into Stormtroopers? Will GL even make an issue of it? Or will he just leave it to us to speculate?


    EDIT: Fixed the Title[/color]
  2. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

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    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    Probably in Episode III or afterwards in the books.
  3. Qui-Gon Tim Memphis, TN FanForce Chapter Rep

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    Apr 1, 2000
    star 5
    It does make me wonder about the makeup of the Stormtrooper legions. Do they continue using Clones, or do they mix in other human recruits as well? Perhaps the latter generations of clones aren't as well-bred as the first couple of generations, due to bad genetic stock and hasty production, resulting in the fact that the Stormies in the Classic Trilogy are so ineffectual.
  4. DarthAttorney Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2000
    star 6
    I think now that we have the first batch to Clonetroopers from AotC, we'll gradually start to see them more and more refined to slot in the original three films. that way, it won't even need to be overtly mentioned anywhere along the way.

    Keep in mind that in each of the originals we were introduced to a new form of Imperial warrior. The basic Stormtroopers of ANH give way to specialised Snowtroopers in ESB then to Scout troopers in RotJ.

  5. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Nov 28, 2000
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    Ineffectual? Compared to whom, the Rebel's best?

    I seem to recall stormtroopers mowing down the Rebel troops onboard Tantive IV and the snowtroopers made quick work of the Rebels on Hoth.
  6. dArTh_wenley Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2001
    star 5

    I would think that the makeup of Stormtroopers is a mixture of geriatric clones and recruits.

    We must remember that the Imperials have their own "Academy" in which they train new recruits.

    I hope GL doesn't make a huge deal about the Clonetroopers turning into the Stormies.

    Maybe at the end of Episode 3 we see a trooper putting on a stormtrooper helmet. I think it work best if we don't see the clones turning into the storms at all on screen. For one it is too soon, and besides, it is much more fun to imagine it. ;)
  7. merlin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 1999
    star 4
    [color=663300]To comment on Qui-Gon Tim's post: I think the stormtroopers in the OT are going to be a mix. I always thought that they were not going to be ANY clones, but the GL commentary of AOTC proved me wrong and he said that there were clones as stormtroopers in the OT.

    But if an empire is going around making it's empire bigger, it can easily get recruits from newly conquered worlds or from the worlds that are already under it's control. Why would they need or even want to keep making new clones? Maybe if the empire just took over the cloning facilites on Kamino, they'd keep it up. But then rises the question, why didn't anyone destroy those facilities? Maybe we'll get to see the destruction of them in EP3?[/color]
  8. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    As a possible EU explanation, in the EU we saw non-clone members of the Stormtrooper corps -- but they were housed in non-standard barracks, away from the other troopers.

    This has led to the theory that:

    a) After cloning was frowned upon, the name was changed to Stormtroopers to remove the stigma.

    b) No new clones were grown after the initial Clone Wars.

    c) To maintain readiness, non-clone troopers were recruited and trained and housed separately from the clones.

    By the time the Rebellion rolled around, the mix was probably fairly even in terms of clones vs. non-clones and by the time Endor rolled around, it was likely a very small percentage of clones in the general Stormtrooper pool.
  9. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    Thinking about it. I don't think the Stormtrooper line will be clones. It took the Kamino's ten years to make a fully grown and trained adult clone. The Republic is at war with the Seperatists.

    I think the Republic is going to start a draft and training replacements to the clones when they start running out and the Kaminos cant create more fast enough.
  10. Ternian Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2000
    star 4
    The annotated screenplays originally listed Lando Calrissian as the last of the great clone clan whose father wanted lots of children - the majority being wiped out during the Clone Wars(Leia does not trust Lando because of the clone connection).

    Obviously this story can be transposed into the Boba/Jango Fett storyline.

    We know that Kamino will be attacked by the Confedracy between EpII - EpIII. Personally, like the Republic Military Crusiers becoming Star Destroyers, the mass production of Clones will introduce the Stormtroopers.

  11. toochilled Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 2000
    star 5
    ok,

    a few facts {as I see them}

    Clonetroopers are called stormtroopers in AOTC.
    Yes, I know this is more implicit then explicit*, but let me explain.
    The OT troopers were all, when the films were made, conceptualised as clones. They are generic 'troopers'. When they storm things they are 'Stormtroopers', whern they are in snow they are 'snowtroopers' . Y'know, basicly all we have is the description of them being troopers and a leading word to eestabl;ish their current role.
    In AOTC their main role was to emphasise the evolution from robot armies to cloned human armies. The emphasis was on their cloning hence 'clonetrooper' was emphasised.
    {that and the fact that calling them stormies off the bat would confuse many / distract them from the narrative at a crucial time}


    It all get's a bit complicated though.
    You see - during the making of the OT all stormies were clones, that's how George saw it. BUT since then, especially in the :SE's George has left hints that this may change and that what we see in the OT may now be a hybrid / mixture of clones and non clones. Personally I hope this will not be the case, but we will have to see. Lucas is not above changing his preconcepted ideas due to political / more child friendly reasons.

    I guess the definitive answer will depend upon the fate of Kamino, and for that we'll have to wait for epIII.


    ed: *they were refered to as stormtroopers in the script also.
  12. Kyle Katarn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 1998
    star 6
    I had always assumed that by the time of the OT, most of the rank and file stormtroopers would be clones, where the commanding officer troopers would be recruits. This could lead to some kind of subserviant attitude on the part of the cloned stormtroopers to the non-cloned officers.

    It could also explain Luke's reference to the "Academy". Perhaps he wanted to lead troops - but then it would also contradict what he later says to Obi Wan about "hating" the Empire.
  13. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
  14. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    I think the armor of the clones will be a hybrid between OT-style armor and AOTC-style armor. We'll see hints of it, but I imagine the majority of the change will occur offscreen.
  15. merlin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 1999
    star 4
    [color=663300]CmdrMitthrawnuruodo, in the commentary for AOTC, George Lucas mentions something about the stormtroopers. During the scene in AOTC when Jango hits his head on the door of Slave 1, GL states that it was put in there as sort of a joke, but also to show that the trait Jango has of bumping his head into things with his helmet on was "cloned" into the stormtroopers. (because one of the storm troopers hits his head in ANH)

    Now I don't usually take what GL says in commentaries to be gospel truth until I see something else on screen to prove it. But it seems for the time being, GL is planning on at least SOME of the OT stormtroopers are still clones. Whether or not they are newly made clones, clones from the first few batches, or what is still left to be seen. [/color]
  16. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    Interestingly enough, both Clonetroopers and Stormtroopers are listed as 1.83 m tall. As are Snowtroopers and Scout troopers.


    Doesn't mean that Stormtroopers are all clones. It is most likely that in order to become a stormtrooper you have to be a certain height in order to fit in the armor which was originaly designed on the heights of the clonetroopers. Its probably cheaper that way too. *shrugs*
  17. toochilled Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 2000
    star 5
    I had always assumed that by the time of the OT, most of the rank and file stormtroopers would be clones, where the commanding officer troopers would be recruits. This could lead to some kind of subserviant attitude on the part of the cloned stormtroopers to the non-cloned officers.


    That WAS definately the plan. As to the current situation,............... we will find out.
  18. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    A thought I had in regards to this...the Kamino cloners kept Jango with them on Kamino. There must have been a reason for this, otherwise I'd imagine they wouldn't have cared where he went. So is it possible that the cloners needed Jango there in order to get fresh samples for new batches of clones?

    If so, they'll need to find new ways to get troopers, whether it be by cloning a different host, or by taking on recruits. Both of which may end up reflecting the eventual name change.
  19. merlin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 1999
    star 4
    [color=663300]I wouldn't think that while under the "republic" that the army will be called stormtroopers. To me, that just sounds like something the "empire" will come up with. Trying to intimidate people with the name. [/color]
  20. JD Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2000
    star 3
    I've yet to watch the AOTC DVD fully with the commentaries yet, but even before all that I'd always assumed that the troopers were human.

    When I first began to roam this board was the first I caught an inkling of the clones but still hung onto my initial thought.

    NOW.....after watching the EpI DVD I'm of the opinion that stormtroopers are at least a mix of clones and humans........maybe with the more emphasis on the human side.

    WHY?

    Watch the bit in the documentary where George is talking to Steven Speilberg. He explains the battle droids and how they are 'goofy' and not very useful and says something about how the show the beginning of the transistion to more capable warriors. (I can't remember exactly - it's awhile since I watched it last...I'll try to get the exact wording this weekend).

    Anyway, to me this meant the the droids/clones/troopers would gradually IMPROVE in how useful they were AS EACH film came along. That's why I think we'll see a marked improvement in the troopers thinking and fighting capabilities in EpIII leading to completely independant human soldiers by the time Palpatine is Emperor.

    In a nutshell I think GL is going to try and show how any attempt to CREATE a fighting soldier is going to fail and that in the end good old human thinking ability is best.

    JD
  21. D_Lowe Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 6
    I would imagine that clonetroopers become stormtroopers when the Empire is formed.
  22. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    I guess it was inevitable that this thread should pop up again. Maybe we should make it the "official" thread, to keep down on the number of copies?

    In case someone gets confused with my reasoning, let me say ahead of time that I do argue both ways. Like everyone else, I am in the dark about this subject. I just like to expand on key evidence.

    I guess that, with either outcome, I'll look like a genius anyways :D

    "the Imperials have their own "Academy" in which they train new recruits. "

    True, but pilots may be different from regular ground troops, or "grunts". Of course, it could have been an officer training school. We know the officers can't be clones, and the Air Force only puts officers into aircraft. (The only armed service to send officers to the front lines :) )

    "He explains the battle droids and how they are 'goofy' and not very useful and says something about how the show the beginning of the transistion to more capable warriors."

    The officers in the PT are other clonetroopers, yet in the OT they are not. Perhaps this was the only change? It would be interesting to see why officers are no longer clones.

    "the name was changed to Stormtroopers to remove the stigma."

    I think it was changed for a different stigma. Palpatine didn't want people confusing them with the "nice" clonetroopers who helped the Jedi. He changes it to "storm" to inspire fear, as the US did with Operation Desert Shield to Operation Desert storm.

    " I would imagine that clonetroopers become stormtroopers when the Empire is formed."

    Agreed.

    "Interestingly enough, both Clonetroopers and Stormtroopers are listed as 1.83 m tall. As are Snowtroopers and Scout troopers."

    That's pretty strong evidence, in my opinion. While not exactly canon, the website takes great pains not to contradict the movies.

    "It is most likely that in order to become a stormtrooper you have to be a certain height in order to fit in the armor which was originaly designed on the heights of the clonetroopers. Its probably cheaper that way too. *shrugs*"

    If the Empire needs more troops, why would they impose such an arcane requirement? Most organizations on Earth have either a minimum heighth (Texas police organization. Rangers, I believe) or maximum heighth (Air Force pilots.) If these are recruits, then the Empire is throwing the baby out with the bath water, and depriving themselves of good talent at different heights. It just doesn't make sense to have both. Why bother having such stringent requirements for "cannon fodder"?

    Also, don't you find it interesting that the "heighth" the Empire picked is the exact same height as Jango fett. There's quite a bit of coincidence here...

    "the Kamino cloners kept Jango with them on Kamino. There must have been a reason for this"

    A deleted scene pointed out that Jango was needed for further genetic samples. While this would not be true of Earth medicine, this is apparently how it works for GL's medicine. Then again, why couldn't Boba be used, since he is a genetically "closer" clone to Jango than any of the clonetroopers, who were genetically altered for various reasons.

    That being said, wouldn't snowtroopers and scout troopers be genetically altered for their planned environments as well?

    "I guess the definitive answer will depend upon the fate of Kamino"

    Agreed.
  23. Darth_Sidious143 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 1
    I think the that when the Empire comes into play, the Clone Troopers' helmets change because they want a new look.
  24. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "they want a new look."

    Who is "they"? Clonetroopers simply follow ordeers.
  25. WellKnownCharacter Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 2
    I imagine that in Episode III we will see the clonetroopers with slightly modified armour-just to make the audience know there stormtroopers but I doubt (and hope) they will not actually be referred to as Stormtroopers.
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