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Lit Clothes and Fashion in the Galaxy Far Far Away

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Gamiel, Sep 30, 2013.

Page 21 of 32

MercenaryAce Chosen One

Registered:

Aug 10, 2005

In addition to what has been said:

This is the uniform of the Tionese unit who were in charge of controlling the Rakghoul outbreak. They are NBC protection suits, IIRC.

This is one of the uniforms worn by the Dread Guard, an army raised by some rogue Sith to fight both the Empire and the Republic.

These are Republic and Sith fighter pilot uniforms

I think the Hutts wear this armor. Look's similar to Lando's skiff guard get up anyway.

Fancy Hutt hats.

MercenaryAce, Jun 27, 2014

#501

Barriss_Coffee and Gamiel like this.
Gamiel Chosen One

Registered:

Dec 16, 2012

Some PT jedi clothes consept art, thanks to CobaltBlue

Darth_Nub said: ↑

From ATMachine's archive thread, here's the posts relevant to discussing the Jedi outfit:

ATMachine said: ↑

Star Wars Episode #'s: When Did Lucas Make Up His Mind? (page 9) Feel Like What

darthboba said:

Yeah, not really seeing how a 14-year-old girl knowing how to handle the turret of a plane she's probably never even seen before helps that scene any.
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She's a good shot with a blaster in the finished ("finished") film anyway, though. So if they simply said "oh, she got training in how to use some of the weaponry" or if Ric Olie (RIC!) gave her a crash course, I could believe it. It'd be like Indy's dad in Last Crusade. darthboba Except that Indy's dad misses horribly and then causes the crash of the airplane by shooting the tail off. Plus good with a blaster against slow-moving droids ain't like dustin crops. ATMachine Also on the subject of the TPM first draft: Here's some concept art by Doug Chiang, taken from the old TPM Insider's Guide CD. This dates from the first draft, in which all the Jedi wore black robes. Here's another concept design (by Iain McCaig?) from the same time. In this version Obi-Wan has a weird tattoo on his forehead. The idea of Obi-Wan dressed in black and with a special Jedi tattoo on his forehead reminds me of the physical description of Dr. Wellington Yueh in Dune: "Paul raised his head, saw the man's stick figure [Dr. Yueh] standing several paces away, took in at a glance the wrinkled black clothing, the square block of a head with purple lips and drooping mustache, the diamond tattoo of Imperial Conditioning on his forehead, the long black hair caught in the Suk School's silver ring at the left shoulder." In the Dune universe, the Suk Medical School's Imperial Conditioning is a training regimen that instills in its subjects an absolute prohibition against harming others; this allows Suk doctors to become the trusted elite confidantes of dukes and emperors. The recipients of such conditioning wear a forehead tattoo to set them apart. Now, the Jedi might not be sworn not to kill, but their elite training does make them the confidantes of powerful galactic leaders. (At least, it does in the very earliest concepts for SW. In the Journal of the Whills, Mace Windy is the "warlord to the Chairman of the Alliance of Independent Systems," and in the ANH first draft, Jedi General Luke Skywalker holds a similar position as military commander under King Kayos of Aquilae.) Such an outward physical mark of Jedi training seems to be what this concept art is evoking. (Never mind that Obi-Wan doesn't have any garish face tattoos in the OT....) Note the reference too to Yueh's ponytail, worn in a specific fashion--over the left shoulder. This is very similar to the Padawan hair braid worn over one ear in the prequels. It's interesting that it seems as if Lucas was drawing on Dune once again when he returned to SW. ... Also, there's this tidbit in the "Terminology of the Imperium" glossary at the end of Dune: "IMPERIAL CONDITIONING: a development of the Suk Medical Schools: the highest conditioning against taking human life. Initiates are marked by a diamond tattoo on the forehead and are permitted to wear their hair long and bound by a silver Suk ring." So long hair (bound in a ponytail) is apparently a prerogative of those elite doctors who have successfully completed the rigorous Suk School training. Compare this to the descriptions of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in the shooting script of TPM:

George Lucas said:

QUI-GON, sixty years old, has very long white hair in a ponytail. He is tall and striking, with blue eyes. OBI-WAN is twenty-five, with very short brown hair, pale skin, and blue eyes.
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So Qui-Gon has the long hair (here fastened in a ponytail) that is allowed to fully-fledged Jedi, while Obi-Wan has the short hair of an apprentice. Notably, Doug Chiang's concept art paintings for the TPM first draft, in which Obi-Wan is already a full Jedi Knight, depict him wearing a topknot-style ponytail. Thus, long hair = full Jedi, short hair = Padawan. And of course, this idea continues into Episodes II and III, where first Obi-Wan and then Anakin wear shaggy haircuts as a show of their rise in status. (Incidentally, some of the CG animatics for the Mustafar lava duel, viewable on the Blu-Ray, show Anakin wearing a ponytail.) Funny that the Jedi hairstyles might ultimately derive from Dune... (This wardrobe feature also recalls somewhat the character descriptions in the ANH first draft, in which Kane and Annikin Starkiller wear samurai-style topknots. But in that version, the hairstyle was said to be that of the inhabitants of the Kessil star system, which the Starkillers had been exploring--so not actually a Jedi trademark. General Skywalker of Aquilae doesn't seem to wear a topknot.) Squiner

ATMachine said:

-- Anakin and Padme get more screen time together in the final battle. They fly a two-man starfighter into the space dogfight; Anakin pilots while Padme fires the guns, so they have to work together. Thus Anakin doesn't accidentally blow up the droid control ship.
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I don't understand why people always refer to Anakin's victory as an "accident". I mean, what's the difference between luck and "The Force"? Or intuition and "The Force"? Imo, Luke used the Force consciously while Anakin used it unconsciously just like he did during Pod-Races. The Force is strong with him, so I really don't see the problem.

PiettsHat said:

And also, in this manner, Padmé can really tie up her own story because she was the leader of Naboo and I think that Lucas thought it was important that she confront Nute Gunray after all he had put her and her people through.
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I agree with this. HevyDevy On the subject of Anakin accidentally destroying the control ship, while I agree that it seems implied that the force led him there (there seems to be a lot about destiny in Phantom Menace, plus a distinct mythical feel to the film) I get the feeling it is intended to contrast his actions later in the saga. Surrendering himself to the force and unintentionally turning the tide vs controlling his own destiny and taking grave actions which destroys the foundation of the galaxy as he knows it. ATMachine Looking more closely at the text on that last image I posted above -- Iain McCaig was indeed the artist who drew the picture of young Obi-Wan with the Dune-esque forehead tattoo. He also drew these two concepts for Obi-Wan's hairstyle. Notice the black robes. In the first draft script, Obi-Wan is about thirty years old, but it seems that Lucas was also toying with aging Obi-Wan up and making Qui-Gon the younger of the two Jedi. Thus the white hair. As for Doug Chiang's concept art for Obi-Wan's first-draft all-black costume, here are a few other images from the old Insider's Guide: Obi-Wan's hairstyle in this piece can also be seen in Chiang's early production paintings. According to the Art of Episode I book, the "strange weapon" is actually designed to resemble a Native American peace pipe, so I guess it's a Jedi ceremonial staff. Here's Obi-Wan wearing a purple hood--perhaps a mark of his elite status as a full Jedi Knight? Feel Like What

ATMachine said:

In the first draft script, Obi-Wan is about thirty years old, but it seems that Lucas was also toying with aging Obi-Wan up and making Qui-Gon the younger of the two Jedi. Thus the white hair.
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I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "aging Obi-Wan up," because originally, wasn't he supposed to be, like, in his sixties or seventies in the OT? So thirty or greater would have been the OT-era assumption already? In other words, by aging "up" how much are you thinking... in his fifties in TPM? The white hair could imply age, but on the other hand I have also met younger people with white or very blond hair. And clearly there was some experimentation going on with appearances of Jedi (perhaps it was dyed). Also, I don't think it's in any of the scripts that are available publicly, but Qui-Gon definitely could have been the younger of the two Jedi. There is a drawing of him (I don't remember who did it, looks like McCaig though) as such in the Art of Episode I book, and it says Lucas was thinking about it. Darth_Nub One of the things I'm most curious to see in Rinzler's upcoming Making of ROTJ is the development of Luke's 'Jedi outfit' and what GL and others had to say about it. Although both GL & Mark Hamill mentioned that it was black to emphasise the risk Luke was facing from the Dark Side (Hamill said to GL that it was very 'Vaderish', GL replied, "It's meant to be"), IIRC, it was also meant to be at least similar to the original Jedi uniform worn during the time of the Republic. The pictures above clearly reinforce this notion, and suggest that perhaps the more military vision of the Jedi was still in place while the PT was first being developed. The outfits aren't exactly the uniforms of soldiers, but they're closer to those of Samurai or medieval warriors than the 'warrior monk' look that would be settled on. It's almost definitely a coincidence, but I've always found it intriguing just how similar this outfit worn by a young Obi-Wan in Marvel Comics' Star Wars #24 is to both Luke's in ROTJ and the early concept sketches: Obviously it's not identical, but it's certainly not just a predictable adaptation or duplicate of what Obi-Wan wears in SW/ANH.
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Darth_Nub said: ↑

ATMachine said: ↑

Star Wars Episode #'s: When Did Lucas Make Up His Mind? (page 10, part 1) ATMachine Feel Like What, I meant that Obi-Wan is already at least thirty in the first draft as originally scripted, but he might have been made even older, judging by some of the concept art drawings (the ones where Qui-Gon is the younger of the pair). In the text of the first draft, though, Obi-Wan refers to Quigon Jinn (thus spelled) as "my mentor and good friend," so it would seem that the idea of making Obi-Wan the elder Jedi was just something Lucas had the concept artists toss around. (Kinda like Ralph McQuarrie's drawings of female Luke in ANH.) The image you posted is actually from later in pre-production, after Liam Neeson had been cast. Note that he has gray hair--the drawing was probably based on the third draft, in which Qui-Gon is a white-haired sixty-year-old, and Obi-Wan is 25. Here are some McCaig drawings of "young" Qui-Gon, without a beard: (Ignore the reference to the "screenplay"--I really think this idea was just considered in the concept art.) Feel Like What ATMachine Do we have a date on that first draft? These pictures seem to be from early 1996 (I can barely make out the dates though, perhaps someone else can see better). And the one I posted indeed must be after Neeson had been cast - I chose that one because (1) I knew it was associated with the text about a younger Qui-Gon in TAoEI and (2) it popped up on a search. Yours are probably better examples. I would love to see a MoSW-type take on the development of TPM. It would encompass everything that happened/changed/developed between the early 80s and 1999. There is so much in there that would be fascinating to study. And your point about the Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan relationship being a result of Lucas wanting to show a master/apprentice relationship is, I think, an astute one. I had thought of it as Lucas simply wanting Obi-Wan to have an arc in the story... but yours makes sense too. ATMachine Lucas first began work on the script in November 1994. The typed version of the first draft--i.e., the version I described above, with Obi-Wan as the main protagonist--was completed on June 13, 1996, according to the TPM Insider's Guide. Which would seem to fit with the picture dates. Actually, I think the Doug Chiang concept art pieces I posted of Obi-Wan in black robes are from early 1995 (as is the McCaig art of young Obi-Wan with the forehead tattoo). The McCaig concept art of Obi-Wan with white hair, however, appears to date from September 1996, and the young Qui-Gon sketches are from December '96. So I guess I was right--the first draft has Obi-Wan as the younger Jedi, though he's still at least thirty years old and a full Knight; but Lucas later had the concept artists play with making him the older of the pair. ... Correction: the McCaig concept art of Obi-Wan with white hair and in black robes actually dates from April 1996. (It's hard reading those tiny dates!) Still, it would seem my point stands: the earlier (1995) sketches depict Obi-Wan as roughly thirty, while the concept drawings from 1996 show him as being older than Qui-Gon. (I would guess that Lucas must have completed a handwritten version of the TPM rough draft somewhat earlier than his typed copy, which seems to have included a few revisions.) Here's a similar McCaig concept drawing of white-haired Obi-Wan, from August 1996. By this time it would seem that the idea of Jedi wearing black robes had been dropped. ... Okay, I pulled out my copy of the TPM Illustrated Screenplay and had a look at the storyboards to note the Jedi costuming. What I found was an extreme mishmash of storyboards from different points in production. The earliest storyboards don't seem to be from the rough draft; two Jedi appear in almost all of them. But given the shifting nature of Qui-Gon's and Obi-Wan's respective roles in early drafts, determining which of the Jedi is which in these early storyboards is rather difficult. One of the Jedi looks like this: That is, he's wearing a samurai-style topknot, plus two braids in front. Obi-Wan sports this style in Doug Chiang's early production paintings, as seen above. Lucas modeled it on the hairstyle of the warrior Madmartigan in his previous film Willow. The other Jedi has this look: Seriously. A Mohawk. There are no words. The Mohawked Jedi is the one who goes into Mos Espa with Padme and Jar Jar, and who later duels Darth Maul. Later, though, during the duel in the Theed power complex, it's the same Mohawked Jedi who gets trapped far behind the laser gates, and who watches helplessly as the other two combatants fight. The Jedi with the topknot gets knocked over into the melting pit and finds a precarious handhold. (In the revised third draft script, it's actually Qui-Gon who falls into the pit. His triumphant leap upward is ironically cut short as Maul hacks him down. However, I don't know which draft the storyboards depict, and the details of the duel changed from draft to draft. In the rough draft, for instance, there are no laser gates and no pit; Obi-Wan is simply knocked off a catwalk, and Qui-Gon is cut down by Maul while Kenobi is climbing back up.) In later storyboards, Qui-Gon wears either a samurai topknot or a ponytail (but no side braids). He's also clean-shaven and dark-haired. Obi-Wan sports short hair and two front braids over his ears. These depictions probably were based on later drafts of the script. Other storyboards, presumably drawn after Liam Neeson had been cast, added a beard to Qui-Gon's face, but otherwise kept the same Jedi "look" (i.e., a ponytail for Qui-Gon and two braids in Obi-Wan's hair). Even then, though, there were variations. In some drawings of bearded Qui-Gon, he wears a topknot and is dark-haired and dark-bearded; in other storyboards his ponytail hangs down, and he has lighter-colored--presumably gray--hair and beard. ... One more interesting detail I noticed: In these Doug Chiang costume concept drawings, Obi-Wan is wearing black robes: However, in Chiang's larger production paintings, Obi-Wan wears black body armor over his torso, as well as protective vambraces on his forearms. It's a very no-nonsense, military warrior look--as opposed to the relatively benevolent image in the costume designs, with soft robes and the "staff of peace" (my term) modeled on Native American peace pipes. You can see the torso armor more clearly on this EU Qui-Gon action figure which reused Chiang's early costume design. ... I seem to have verbal incontinence tonight... hopefully this more in-depth post will make up for that a little. I was thinking about the idea in the prequels of the Jedi being chosen by genetics, and taken away from their families at birth. And I realized that, fundamentally, it's not a particularly bad or even unusual idea. Such notions have a long pedigree in the SF of Lucas' youth. Consider: In Dune, the hero Paul Atreides is the product of a millennia-long breeding program conducted by the Bene Gesserit sisterhood. Their ultimate goal is to produce a Kwisatz Haderach, a man with the power to see various possible futures and to choose which one to enact. Unexpectedly, Paul's mother Jessica, who loves her husband, chooses (using the extraordinary control of her body granted by Bene Gesserit technique) to bear the son Duke Leto hopes for, instead of the daughter demanded by the Sisterhood. Thus Paul is born one generation early, and is not subject to Bene Gesserit control. EE "Doc" Smith's Lensman series features something very similar. Although the Lensman corps is open to anyone who passes the ultra-rigorous training, the highest levels of the discipline are reachable only by certain specially-bred individuals. The Arisians, the ancient, omniscient aliens who created the Lens (and in fact all galactic life), have enacted several breeding programs in various species, which are designed to culminate in the successors to their own position as guardians of the galaxy. Humanity, at the time of the series, has come the closest to reaching that goal. The books' principal hero, Kimball Kinnison, is in fact the penultimate male in the human breeding program, and his wife Clarissa is the destined penultimate female. As a Second Stage Lensman, Kim Kinnison has no need of the physical Lens itself; his mind alone is a weapon of unparalleled power. Kim and Clarissa's children, the apex of centuries of Arisian influence on human reproduction, have even greater mental powers, and they are ultimately destined to evolve into something beyond human. Or, crossing genres for a moment, consider Harry Potter: the witches and wizards of Hogwarts are all selected for school at this magical university because they have magical power "in the blood." Wizarding talent seems to be genetic. Some Muggle families produce an unexpected wizard child, owing to intermarriage in past generations; conversely, sometimes wizard parents have a Squib, a magically-non-gifted baby. But readers don't complain about this aspect of the books. So why do some SW fans dislike the genetically-destined nature of the Jedi in the prequels? I would guess it's largely down to the fact that it violates a central theme of the OT. Namely, the power of self-confidence. The Force was a metaphor for believing in yourself. Luke used the Force (i.e., his own faith in his abilities) to destroy the Death Star. Han Solo, the cynical rogue, disbelieves in the Force and so he can't use it. From the original films, it appeared like the Force was open to anyone, so long as they just believed. The prequels flatly contradict that--and it ruins the metaphor from the OT. It must be admitted, though, that the seeds of this change had already been planted very early on. In the second draft script of ANH, the first in which the Force involves powers of telekinesis, the Jedi are trained in families. Luke's father, the Starkiller, is a mighty Jedi warrior with numerous sons in the service of the Rebellion. It's also said that the first discoverer of the Force's power, known as the Skywalker, transmitted this knowledge only to his twelve sons, who in turn passed it on to their sons. An echo of this crops up in ROTJ, when Luke tells Leia that "The Force is strong in my family." The first draft of ANH has a father and son Jedi pair, Kane and Annikin Starkiller, but it doesn't particularly emphasize the genetic aspects of the Force. In this version, however, there was very little of a supernatural aspect to Jedi abilities; the Jedi and Sith were merely hardened warriors who had undergone rigorous training, giving them supreme command of mind and body. Much like the Bene Gesserit sisters' supreme control over their bodies in Dune. ... Just a few words about the costumes in the storyboards I described above: In the earliest drawings the younger, Mohawk-wearing Jedi has a sleeveless shirt and vest, metal bracelets on his bare upper arms, and vambraces on his forearms. The other Jedi, with the topknot, wears basically the armored costume Chiang first designed for Obi-Wan, plus the accompanying hairstyle. In the next set of storyboards, where the Mohawk is gone but Qui-Gon is still beardless, Obi-Wan is wearing standard Jedi PT robes (though possibly black in color) along with a double-braid Padawan haircut, while Qui-Gon is wearing the same armored outfit (and topknot) mentioned above. The later drawings, in which Qui-Gon sports a beard, show both Jedi in the standard prequel-era Jedi garb. At this point I would hazard that the black outfits had definitely been discarded. As for which Jedi is which in the early drawings: The various TPM making-of books all make clear that the "looks" of both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were extremely fluid. However, I'll hazard a hypothesis. Most of the early storyboards of the Tatooine scenes appear to show Qui-Gon as the one with a Mohawk (since the Mohawked Jedi is the one who enters town, meets Anakin, etc.). On the other hand, the storyboards of the Theed duel with Darth Maul seem to make Obi-Wan the Mohawked Jedi, since it's he who falls behind and gets trapped beyond the laser gates. The other Jedi, the one with the topknot, falls into the melting pit, which we know Qui-Gon did in at least one draft. Feel Like What

ATMachine said:

Or, crossing genres for a moment, consider Harry Potter: the witches and wizards of Hogwarts are all selected for school at this magical university because they have magical power "in the blood." Wizarding talent seems to be genetic. Some Muggle families produce an unexpected wizard child, owing to intermarriage in past generations; conversely, sometimes wizard parents have a Squib, a magically-non-gifted baby. But readers don't complain about this aspect of the books. So why do some SW fans dislike the genetically-destined nature of the Jedi in the prequels? I would guess it's largely down to the fact that it violates a central theme of the OT. Namely, the power of self-confidence. The Force was a metaphor for believing in yourself. Luke used the Force (i.e., his own faith in his abilities) to destroy the Death Star. Han Solo, the cynical rogue, disbelieves in the Force and so he can't use it. From the original films, it appeared like the Force was open to anyone, so long as they just believed. The prequels flatly contradict that--and it ruins the metaphor from the OT.
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I think the "problem" people have with midichlorians is actually several different things that get conflated. One, it didn't seem necessary to have a basis in cell biology to explain how the Force communicates with living things. The more mystical explanation given in ESB works just as well for many people. Thematically, it might work in TPM because of how symbiosis is supposed to infuse the whole film, but overall it doesn't seem like a necessary thing to explain. (The magic system in Harry Potter, which I gather is given cursory if any physical explanation, is just as accepted even without such an explanation.) Two, people think that it divides characters into those who are born with the Force and those who can never have it. In other threads I have found a basketball metaphor to be useful, however: There are lots of basketball players who were born with the genetics that make them tall, fast, etc. But there are other people who weren't born with those advantages, who still worked at it and became successful players (Mugsy Bogues). So even with some hereditary aspects to strength in the Force, we in terms of logic don't necessarily have to conclude that some people are just born with it and others can never touch it. However, the prequels do feel like they have that exclusive division, to me. We also don't know if people are born with different numbers of midichlorians, and this makes it easier for them to contact the Force, or if they are born with some kind of mystical tie to the Force and the midichlorians flock/grow around that focal point between the organism and the Force. (Right? I could be forgetting something.) ATMachine A couple more early Doug Chiang sketches: Obi-Wan wearing a blue shirt. Obi-Wan wearing the Jedi armor seen in color in the production paintings.
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Darth_Nub said: ↑

ATMachine said: ↑

Star Wars Episode #'s: When Did Lucas Make Up His Mind? (page 10, part 2) Darth_Nub Ladies & gentlemen, I present you with Baron Obi-Wan Calrissian, second in line to the Kadar Duchy of Cloud City, regarded as the black sheep of a once-proud family for abandoning his duties to pursue some damn-fool idealistic crusade. Rumoured to be survived by an illegitimate nephew who refuses to acknowledge his existence, but insists on retaining the family name for the purpose of achieving easy credit at various galactic casinos. Whereabouts and ultimate fate of the first-born heir unknown. Last seen discussing the negative effects of external cerebral implants with un-named individuals. Tosche_Station ATMachine By contrast, here are the original ANH designs for Jedi robes, as worn by Ben Kenobi: A Ralph McQuarrie concept for Obi-Wan, based on the look of a Japanese kimono. Another McQuarrie Obi-Wan concept, this time incorporating blue robes over white. A later McQuarrie drawing of Obi-Wan's costume, featuring Alec Guinness's likeness. John Mollo's early design for Ben Kenobi, wearing Tatooine settler garb. Another drawing of Obi-Wan in Tatooine peasant dress. This style is actually also based on Japanese clothing. Mollo's first sketch of Obi-Wan in a samurai-style kimono. Here Mollo experiments with putting Obi-Wan in a simple white robe (an idea which was ultimately rejected, judging by the notation: "go back to floor-length kimono"). Also note the tassel on the point of Obi-Wan's hood. This design is very close to Obi-Wan's final film outfit; however, his cloak still has an elaborate clasp and a tassel on the hood. The final "look" for Obi-Wan Kenobi. ... Nilo Rodis-Jamero's concepts for Luke's "Vaderish" Jedi gear. This last one is a bit different than what we saw in the film. In Annotated Screenplays, Rodis-Jamero describes his design approach to Luke's Jedi outfit: "I remember George telling me that in samurai movies costumes say a lot about the characters; the way the costume is folded, the way it's tucked in is very important. So I thought, Luke has become a Jedi; he's more distant, more serious. I thought, What do gunslingers wear when they mean business? They wear black. If you look at Luke's costume, it's all derivative of Japanese designs... Ben also wore some kind of Japanese kimono. So I tailored the costume in a way that would allow Luke to fight in the action sequences." ...

Darth_Nub said:

Ladies & gentlemen, I present you with Baron Obi-Wan Calrissian, second in line to the Kadar Duchy of Cloud City, regarded as the black sheep of a once-proud family for abandoning his duties to pursue some damn-fool idealistic crusade. Rumoured to be survived by an illegitimate nephew who refuses to acknowledge his existence, but insists on retaining the family name for the purpose of achieving easy credit at various galactic casinos. Whereabouts and ultimate fate of the first-born heir unknown. Last seen discussing the negative effects of external cerebral implants with un-named individuals.
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Actually, given the shoulder pads, the vambraces, and the huge belt, he kind of looks like an alternate-universe Kyle Katarn...
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Darth_Nub said: ↑

Darth_Nub said: ↑

ATMachine said: ↑

Star Wars Episode #'s: When Did Lucas Make Up His Mind? (page 11) Darth_Nub

ATMachine said:

Nilo Rodis-Jamero's concepts for Luke's "Vaderish" Jedi gear. (snip) This last one is a bit different than what we saw in the film. In Annotated Screenplays, Rodis-Jamero describes his design approach to Luke's Jedi outfit: "I remember George telling me that in samurai movies costumes say a lot about the characters; the way the costume is folded, the way it's tucked in is very important. So I thought, Luke has become a Jedi; he's more distant, more serious. I thought, What do gunslingers wear when they mean business? They wear black. If you look at Luke's costume, it's all derivative of Japanese designs... Ben also wore some kind of Japanese kimono. So I tailored the costume in a way that would allow Luke to fight in the action sequences."
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Interesting, I haven't seen most of those. It looks as if the kimono-inspired vest/tunic for Jedi was a bit of a constant, even as far back as the early sketches for Obi-Wan, then eventually through the PT. Even Vader has one over his armour in SW/ANH (eliminated for ESB & ROTJ). The last picture, the 'gunfighter' look (and 'Han Solo look', let's face it), seems to be directly adapted from this Ralph MacQuarrie sketch for SW: What now strikes me as odd is how dramatically different the early Chiang Jedi designs are to virtually all the designs for the OT.
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Gamiel, Jun 28, 2014

#502
Gamiel Chosen One

Registered:

Dec 16, 2012

may be of some interest

ATMachine said: ↑

So I was rereading the newly-merged Jedi clothing thread when something hit me.

I've noticed before that the overall look of Obi-Wan Kenobi, and particularly his hairstyle, in the concept art dating to the rough draft of TPM...

...appears to have been based closely on Madmartigan (played by Val Kilmer) in Lucas's earlier film Willow.

Both of them have long dark hair with two thin pigtails in front and a ponytail/topknot in back.

Of course it's well known nowadays that the legendary Moebius, aka Jean Giraud, did some concept art for Willow back in the day. Here is his take on Madmartigan:

You can see Moebius is really running here with the Japanese-influenced aesthetic that Lucas likes. The hair of this Madmartigan is quite similar to the final film's version--although Moebius seems to have included a shaven area just above the forehead, rather after the fashion of a Japanese chonmage or Manchu-dynasty Chinese men's hairstyles.

But that's not the only bit of TPM character design Moebius had a hand in retroactively. Take a look at his designs for another character in Willow--the warrior woman Sorsha, who starts out as a villain and becomes Madmartigan's love interest:

Moebius has Sorsha wear a white Noh mask, adorned with ornamental red patches.

Now whom do we know in TPM who dresses like that?

Oh, right.

There's also the matter of Sorsha's hairstyle in the second piece of concept art above. In the rightmost drawing there, she has a long blonde ponytail on the back of her head; the rest of her head is shaven.

Compare bounty hunter Aurra Sing from TPM:

Aurra also has Luke's long rifle from Ralph McQuarrie's ANH concept art, so it's safe to say she's been put together from various pre-existing unused designs.

As for Sorsha in the final cut of Willow, she didn't end up with the Aurra Sing hair, or even blonde hair: the shooting script specifically calls for her to be a redhead, and that's what got filmed.
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Gamiel, Jun 29, 2014

#503

Gorefiend, Valin__Kenobi, Abadacus and 2 others like this.
Findswoman Fanfic and Pancakes and Waffles Mod (in Pink) Staff Member Manager

Registered:

Feb 27, 2014

So this image of an Ithorian beastwarden was posted earlier today in "Ackbar Is Back":

Gamiel said: ↑

Rogue Five said: ↑

Click to expand...

Thanks
Click to expand...

Here's the remark I made, and Gamiel 's reply:

Gamiel said: ↑

Findswoman said: ↑

Interesting how similar his attire is to that of a Gand findsman...
Click to expand...

Can you post some images of findsmen for comparison?
Click to expand...

Well, this is the particular findsman image that came to mind (from whichever Ultimate Alien Anthology it was that introduced the findsman prestige class):

Apart from a few details in the sleeves, the outer-robe-over-inner-robe-plus-harness arrangement seems quite similar, and chest harness thing seems quite similar.

Findswoman , Jun 29, 2014

#504

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kecen Jedi Master

Registered:

Jul 12, 2005

That type of "thobe" outfit is so common in the SWU.
Wonder how practical that harness is, though?

kecen, Jun 29, 2014

#505
Findswoman Fanfic and Pancakes and Waffles Mod (in Pink) Staff Member Manager

Registered:

Feb 27, 2014

kecen said: ↑

That type of "thobe" outfit is so common in the SWU.
Wonder how practical that harness is, though?
Click to expand...

Well, yes. But the similarity of the harness really did seem striking. I've often wondered about its function. Just another way of holding more gear, with some extra armod built in, I'd guess...?

Findswoman , Jun 29, 2014

#506
Gamiel Chosen One

Registered:

Dec 16, 2012

Findswoman said: ↑

kecen said: ↑

That type of "thobe" outfit is so common in the SWU.
Wonder how practical that harness is, though?
Click to expand...

Well, yes. But the similarity of the harness really did seem striking. I've often wondered about its function. Just another way of holding more gear, with some extra armod built in, I'd guess...?
Click to expand...

Beside the harness they don't look so alike to me, there is a similar silhouette but beside that they are different. The findsman’s clothes more resemble samurai wear while the beastwarden have a more “Middle Eastern”/"North African" look with his kaftan.

Gamiel, Jun 30, 2014

#507
Gamiel Chosen One

Registered:

Dec 16, 2012

Do we know how chiss fashion looks like?

Gamiel, Jul 4, 2014

#508
Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

Registered:

Jun 29, 2003

Gamiel said: ↑

Do we know how chiss fashion looks like?
Click to expand...

When they're not wearing uniforms, it's... well... complicated...

Barriss_Coffee, Jul 4, 2014

#509
Gamiel Chosen One

Registered:

Dec 16, 2012

Barriss_Coffee said: ↑

When they're not wearing uniforms, it's... well... complicated...

Click to expand...

Is that a Melnibonéan?

Gamiel, Jul 4, 2014

#510

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Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

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Jun 29, 2003

Gamiel said: ↑

Is that a Melnibonéan?
Click to expand...

Alas, you would know more than I my friend. I am not well-versed in that region of sci-fi lore. I only know that it's from the old French RPG magazine, Casus Belli. But who knows -- maybe the magazine artist had been influenced by the Melniboné universe?

Barriss_Coffee, Jul 4, 2014

#511
Vthuil Force Ghost

Registered:

Jan 3, 2013

That's a Chiss?

Vthuil, Jul 4, 2014

#512
Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

Registered:

Jun 29, 2003

Vthuil said: ↑

That's a Chiss?
Click to expand...

Bizarrely, it's supposed to be Thrawn of all people! ..er, of all Chiss! I haven't a clue as to the context -- maybe there was some Grand Admiral drama (*cough*Takel*cough*) and he was trying to make a point.

Barriss_Coffee, Jul 4, 2014

#513

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LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

Registered:

Oct 29, 2012

Barriss_Coffee said: ↑

Vthuil said: ↑

That's a Chiss?
Click to expand...

Bizarrely, it's supposed to be Thrawn of all people! ..er, of all Chiss! I haven't a clue as to the context -- maybe there was some Grand Admiral drama (*cough*Takel*cough*) and he was trying to make a point.
Click to expand...

Actually, it doesn't look that different from the other Chiss attire we've seen elsewhere: wide, triangular collars, capes and capelets seem to be the norm.

LelalMekha, Jul 5, 2014

#514
Vthuil Force Ghost

Registered:

Jan 3, 2013

LelalMekha said: ↑

Barriss_Coffee said: ↑

Vthuil said: ↑

That's a Chiss?
Click to expand...

Bizarrely, it's supposed to be Thrawn of all people! ..er, of all Chiss! I haven't a clue as to the context -- maybe there was some Grand Admiral drama (*cough*Takel*cough*) and he was trying to make a point.
Click to expand...

Actually, it doesn't look that different from the other Chiss attire we've seen elsewhere: wide, triangular collars, capes and capelets seem to be the norm.
Click to expand...

I'm talking less about the clothing and more about the face and hair.

Vthuil, Jul 5, 2014

#515
Gamiel Chosen One

Registered:

Dec 16, 2012

LelalMekha said: ↑

Barriss_Coffee said: ↑

Vthuil said: ↑

That's a Chiss?
Click to expand...

Bizarrely, it's supposed to be Thrawn of all people! ..er, of all Chiss! I haven't a clue as to the context -- maybe there was some Grand Admiral drama (*cough*Takel*cough*) and he was trying to make a point.
Click to expand...

Actually, it doesn't look that different from the other Chiss attire we've seen elsewhere: wide, triangular collars, capes and capelets seem to be the norm.
Click to expand...

Were do we see them in that attire?

Gamiel, Jul 5, 2014

#516
Gamiel Chosen One

Registered:

Dec 16, 2012

From http://christopherburdett.deviantart.com/

Gamiel, Jul 14, 2014

#517

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Findswoman Fanfic and Pancakes and Waffles Mod (in Pink) Staff Member Manager

Registered:

Feb 27, 2014

Passk's outfit has that very interesting "Victorian-Orientalist" look to it—which wasn't necessarily the first thing that came to mind for me when thinking about Trandoshan garb (yeah, bias, I know), but it turns out to suit quite well. The snappy red color is a good eye match.

The Quarren's outfit is very striking, but wouldn't that chestpiece make it hard to breathe? (Or is there something about their respiratory physiology I'm missing?)

I'm definitely psyched to take a closer look at this guy's gallery. Very intriguing stuff.

Findswoman , Jul 15, 2014

#518

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Gamiel Chosen One

Registered:

Dec 16, 2012

I just want to blow the horn for Han Solo's outfit, it is such a simple design that is at the same time brilliant.

Most people say it makes him look like a cowboy - all that is missing is a cowboy hat - and this is true, it is also true that if you put a pilot's cap on him he looks like a freelance pilot; a seaman’s hat and he could be sharing table with Captain Haddock; a fedora and we have a gangster; a bandana and he would fit in among travellers; etc.

Gamiel, Jul 22, 2014

#519

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Findswoman Fanfic and Pancakes and Waffles Mod (in Pink) Staff Member Manager

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Feb 27, 2014

And gotta love the plunging neckline too, of course.

Findswoman , Jul 22, 2014

#520
Gamiel Chosen One

Registered:

Dec 16, 2012

Have we seen anything like hair-pipe breastplates?

Gamiel, Jul 23, 2014

#521
Gamiel Chosen One

Registered:

Dec 16, 2012

Iron_lord said: ↑

Gamiel said: ↑

Do we know how chiss everyday wear looks like?
Click to expand...

Panha from Invasion might qualify as an example of a Chiss wearing everyday wear - she's an explorer with a Wookiee copilot, rather than an officer:

There is also a fairly nice picture in the Saga Edition Unknown Regions splatbook:

Click to expand...

Gamiel, Aug 2, 2014

#522

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Sarge Chosen One

Registered:

Oct 4, 1998

http://swagonline.net/

You guys know about this site, right? Totally fan made and non-canon, but a lot of talented artists and great ideas.

Sarge, Aug 2, 2014

#523

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Gamiel Chosen One

Registered:

Dec 16, 2012

In the Darth Maul comic we see a unnamed kiffar that works as the bodyguard to the unnamed twi'lek vigo and I was wondering if people think he belong to the Vos clan? He bears the enclosed star of the Vos clan and have a yellow horizontal bars across the bridge of his nose, but at the same time the bar is smaller then any of the other Vos we have seen and the enclosed star was also used by the Kiffu Guardians so he could also be a former guardsman who flaunt his former profession. What do people think?

I have not been able to find a picture of him sadly

Gamiel, Aug 5, 2014

#524
Findswoman Fanfic and Pancakes and Waffles Mod (in Pink) Staff Member Manager

Registered:

Feb 27, 2014

This is technically from a while ago, but...

Gamiel said: ↑

may be of some interest

ATMachine said: ↑

Moebius has Sorsha wear a white Noh mask, adorned with ornamental red patches.

Now whom do we know in TPM who dresses like that?

Oh, right.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

For what it's worth, Darth Nihilus also sports that Noh-mask/Phantom of the Opera-type look. In fact, I'd say his look is arguably closer to that concept art for Sorsha than is Amidala's makeup, which after all is not technically a mask.

Findswoman , Aug 5, 2014

#525

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