PT Club Jocasta Book #1 - Labyrinth of Evil (now discussing Chapters 4-7)

I think I'm waaay passed that. Whoops.

 

Going just by the first three chapters, I am not really liking this Anakin at all. He seems too close to his AOTC counterpart rather than ROTS.

 

I thought the exact opposite haha. I thought he could have been reigned in a bit on the micro series

 

I haven't read this book in probably close to a decade so I was happy to have incentive to pull it off the shelf! Based off the first 3 chapters, between the micro-series and TCW, I think he leans more towards the latter (I haven't seen the micro-series in its entirety so I can't really make a comparison there ) IMO, I see a smidge more of Hayden's portrayal right now than the animated take on the character though.


Enjoyed the Obi-Wan/Anakin banter as usual, always good for a chuckle:
Anakin: "I prefer more straightforward tactics"
Obi-Wan: "Master of understatement"

 

I'm glad you brought this passage up because parts of it really rankled me. Sometimes I really take issue with the creative license in the EU and this is one of those times.

Anakin has been a Jedi for about 13 years at this point, and indoctrinated into their theology since he was nine. There seems to me to be no way that he would ever feel like harnessing his rage to fight or use the force is something that would work for him without going to the dark side. Like, he is literally using the dark side here, and not only would he know what that is, he would know that he should avoid it and why.

Throughout the prequels, Anakin struggled with his anger and worked to eliminate it (unsuccessfully). Even in the ROTS novel, using his anger in fighting Dooku was novel for him. Anyway, it took me out of the continuity.

 

Thank god this passage was brought up. I had already read past it when I found this thread, so I was waiting and holding my tongue to complain about it-- it really bothered me to no end.

I like what Sepra brought up about Anakin's Jedi training. If Anakin were consciously thinking about how angry he was, he would probably be consciously trying to squash it. But what really bothered me about this passage was that we the readers were being told that Anakin was angry. Like I had to put the book down and stare crankily into the middle distance for a few good minutes. From the perspective of a reader trying to enjoy this piece of literature, and especially so because Anakin is a character I like very much, I would really prefer to be "shown" things about Anakin. I'm a little really tired of Anakin's anger being pushed so hard, because he's much more complex than that. Anakin being angry is something I would really have preferred to have explained to me through actions, and over a longer course of events. In the greater continuity of the story of Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, I feel like a passage like this would have worked better for me much later in the book, had it been built up to for several hundred pages. Yes, we all know Anakin is going to turn to the Dark Side, so it's not like there's much suspense here, but I would have appreciated at least an attempt at it.

To touch on heels' first question-- in my mind, Anakin's turn was very complex, just as Anakin himself is complex, and passages like this one just make it seem to me like it was all too easy for him to turn to the Dark Side. I really think Anakin's turn was a massive pile up of a lot of really crappy life experiences, and the cherry on top was his nightmares about Padme's death. And it takes a long time for him to get to that breaking point. Additionally, to address the 3rd question: to me, this passage didn't seem like Anakin. Like I said, I felt like I was being told about Anakin. So I can't say whether or not Anakin was being honest with himself, because it kind of felt like this: "Look at that guy. He's so angry. Lookie, now he's going to bridle his vast sea of anger that he's hyper-aware of and really make it work for himself! Damn, Anakin, you control that anger, bro". Like??? At this stage, it felt out of place. It felt forced to me.

 

I had coincidentally started reading Labyrinth of Evil around the same time that the idea for the book club was put forward, but I wasn't sure if I would be able to participate due to time constraints and also because I'm a terrible literature student. I just wanted to say that I personally like this set of questions more than the first discussion question (even though they're based on a somewhat problematic paragraph in Labyrinth of Evil), mainly because I didn't watch TCW and while I did watch the Tartakovsky micro-series and thought it wasn't bad, I didn't connect with it anywhere near the level I did for the films and did think of the micro-series as taking some creative licence anyway, so there was pretty much no way for me to answer or appreciate some of the responses to the first question. While I don't object to there being questions related to other media, it's nice to have some questions that can be answered just with the book under discussion and the films themselves, I think, so that those with less exposure to other media can still get a lot out of those questions.

Thanks for hosting the book club, heels! Will think about the book club questions and get back if I get over my literature-as-a-subject phobia.

I was rewatching the deleted scenes in Sith yesterday, and it occurred to me that what we see in Sith is the worst of Anakin. Admittedly, deleted scenes are not considered canon, but watching them really gives one a good idea of why Lucas chose to include the scenes he did in the final cut: because if the audience had seen the better side of Anakin as frequently as Obi-Wan did - and I think by Sith Anakin has worked out a lot of his issues to a good extent, the main exception being his attachment to Padmé, due to the need to keep it secret - we would have as hard a time as Obi-Wan in believing that Anakin could turn to the dark side. So I agree that it is a bit annoying to see Anakin using the dark side being treated as the way Anakin is under ordinary circumstances (especially after he is knighted, which I think gave him a great boost of confidence and helped him work out quite a few of his issues) instead of just the worst side of him.

 

Some interesting stuff in these chapters... one small thing that stuck out to me was Anakin's response to not being able to apprehend Gunray & co. Using his lightsaber to randomly slash at something in anger just seemed a little odd/out of place for him IMO. That goes into the passage that is referenced for discussion as well as what Sepra says... how Anakin is portrayed at this point just doesn't feel wholly connected to how I see him elsewhere. Sure, he has moments of anger, but he knows they are wrong...

Was Anakin's turn much more complex than generally accepted? Was it the experience of war, as opposed to the loss of his mother and threat of losing his wife, that fundamentally changed him? Was it the experience of being enslaved? Was Anakin doomed from the start?
For sure, very complex. I definitely think it was a combination of all of these experiences, plus having Palpatine whispering in his ear from the very beginning... playing on his fears and attachments, manipulating him. From the moment Palpatine knew of Anakin, I do think he was set on a doomed path.

 

I'm still just trying to wrap my head around this whole book. I'm having trouble since I already have my mindest set about Anakin's turn thanks to TCW, and with LoE being non-canon now my mind keeps wanting to reject it. Although, it is a really good read.

 

Ahh no wait! I haven't had a chance to read the past couple of chapters yet!!

 

What chapters do we need to read to? Nine?

I think I ended up on eleven despite myself.

 

Up to page 115 myself.
I love Luceno's style. Ties in so much from the 2002-2005 Clone Wars project and other parts of the PT era EU.
Really makes it feel like a well realized galaxy and war.

 

I know I'm double posting but its been since Wednesday.
Finished the book yesterday morning.
Loved it. Last time I read it was some time in 07-08 during my Big EU read through at the time.

Really holds up well imo. Even with all of the changes because of TCW.
Really sets up the stage for ROTS.

Won't go in-depth until we get further in the book.

 

I know a couple of us have finished and I'm on chapter 13 or thereabouts. I think in absence of questions we can just talk about it, unless we are worried about book spoilers?

 

So I've gotten to about 1/3 of the way in. Some thoughts:

Obi-Wan and Yoda have an interesting conversation about the war and that maybe it's tearing apart the Jedi and making them go back on their ideals. Yoda flat out rejects this and argues that it isn't impacting the Jedi, so it's interesting that he comes around in TCW.

I think CIS Droid would be interested in knowing the origins for the battle droid look and feel. I liked how they were modeled on an actual race of aliens.

I'm getting to that point in the novel that I seem to get in all the EU where my eyes glaze over with all the descriptions of starships and it's "transparisteel" this and "durasteel" that. I don't understand why we can't focus on the characters? There was some of this in the ROTS novel, but I feel like it was far less.