PT Club Jocasta - Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by cubman987, Aug 15, 2017.

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  1. cubman987 PT Book Club Host - PT Trivia Host

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    The votes are in and Yoda: Dark Rendezvous by Sean Stewart is the next book we will be reading for the PT book club!

    [IMG]

    And a reminder of the rules:

    Newcomers are always welcome here! All we ask is that they be interested in bucking the dominant trend of the internet by:

    -- Enjoying the PT (or at least refraining from making snarky remarks about it or in any way putting out veiled insults about the tastes of those who do enjoy it here)

    -- Being generally polite, friendly, and considerate of others' feelings

    I know some people have this book and/or have read this already so we can start discussing the first few chapters here soon - for anyone that has read this before please feel free to post some discussion topics. I have not read this one before so I won't have any discussion topics until probably the beginning of next week as the book won't arrive from Amazon until Thursday. Anyone who needs to get the book go ahead and buy, rent, or borrow it and join in!

    I'm going to tag as many people as I can remember who have participated before or who have expressed interest, please feel free to tag anyone else you think might want to join and sorry if I forget anyone!!

    @Darthmaul208 @Force Smuggler @QueenSabe7 @DarthAnakin96 @Darkslayer @darkspine10 @jakobitis89 @Amon_Amarth @Talos of Atmora @Snokers
    Last edited by cubman987, Aug 15, 2017
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  2. cubman987 PT Book Club Host - PT Trivia Host

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  3. cubman987 PT Book Club Host - PT Trivia Host

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    Last edited by cubman987, Aug 15, 2017
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  4. cubman987 PT Book Club Host - PT Trivia Host

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  5. Talos of Atmora Jedi Master

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    Awesome. I'm excited to talk about this one.
    Last edited by Talos of Atmora, Aug 15, 2017
  6. Mostly Handless Jedi Master

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    just ordered a second hand copy, so hopefully I'll be able to join in at some point.:)
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  7. DarthAnakin96 Jedi Grand Master

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    Won't be joining as school starts soon so I'm going to be way too busy, but I'll probably read this thread still since this book sounds intriguing.

    Although I have seen a least a small, out-of-context excerpt from this book which was, well, weird out of context for sure ;):p
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  8. Blackhole E Snoke Jedi Knight

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    I was hoping to read Lost Stars, which I own but still haven't read yet. But I don't mind going through Yoda: DR again. I've read it twice before, last time was maybe 3-4 years ago.
    Last edited by Blackhole E Snoke, Aug 15, 2017
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  9. jakobitis89 Jedi Master

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    Only the single greatest Yoda tale of all evers. Consider yourself warned I may get very enthused here.
  10. Subtext Mining Jedi Knight

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    Fudge, it's not on Audible (which is bewildering) or at my library. Ima hafta sit yet another one out :/

    When's the next one?
    Last edited by Subtext Mining, Aug 16, 2017
  11. Darkslayer Force Ghost

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  12. cubman987 PT Book Club Host - PT Trivia Host

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    Pretty much when this one is done....so maybe a month or so
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  13. Dagobahsystem Force Ghost

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    I bought a copy of Dark Rendezvous two years ago and have been looking forward to reading it ever since, but I kept reading other SW books, based on so many valued suggestions.
    Now is the time. Finally!

    I would be honored if I could join you.

    The very first paragraph is wonderfully descriptive and quite intriguing...

    Show Spoiler
    The sun was setting on Coruscant. Shadows ran like black water, filling up the alleys first, then climbing steadily higher, a tide of darkness rising to drown the capital. Twilight's gloom spread over retail districts and medcenters, and crept like a dark stain up the walls of the Chancellor's residence as the sun slipped below the horizon. Soon only the rooftops were gilded with the day's last yellow light; then the shadows conquered them, too, swarming up the pinnacles of the Senate Building and the spires of the Jedi Temple. The long day of the Republic had come to an end.
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  14. cubman987 PT Book Club Host - PT Trivia Host

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    Got the book, haven't made it far yet but my early thoughts are....that Mace Windu is kind of a jerk.
  15. Dagobahsystem Force Ghost

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    Read chapter one yesterday, loved it. I have a good feeling about this book.
    The Tyranus and Asajj scene was gangbusters!
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  16. cubman987 PT Book Club Host - PT Trivia Host

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    Ventress is straight up evil in this books so far
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  17. Dagobahsystem Force Ghost

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    I know! Isn't it great lol.

    Anyhow, I've read the first three chapters.
    Loving this book so far.

    It's an easy read compared to other SW books I've read. Quite the page turner.
    Must read for Yoda fans.

    Looking forward to discussing it with everyone.
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  18. cubman987 PT Book Club Host - PT Trivia Host

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    Okay so hopefully everyone has the book or will have it soon. Let's try to make it through the first 3 or 4 chapters this week. Here are a few discussion topics from the first few chapters, anyone else please feel free to come up with your own!

    What do you think of Count Dooku's explanation to Ventress on why he won't make her his apprentice and how it relates to the Sith and the "Rule of 2"?

    This book was written before The Clone Wars series first aired, how do you think Ventress character so far is similar or different to her portrayal in the TV show?

    Do you think Scout's actions during the tournament are acceptable for a Jedi in training? Or were her tactics too "un-Jedi"?
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  19. jakobitis89 Jedi Master

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    This Dooku is definitely written with the idea that he sees himself as still having good intentions and trying to ''use'' the Dark Side whereas TCW went with him being All Sith, All The Time (mostly). I personally prefer a more conflicted Dooku as we see here but the novel does make abundantly clear that just because he thinks he's got some nobility left he's NOT a good person (any more.)

    In a similar way, for the me the main thing with Ventress is that her character underwent a whole lotta development over the course of the whole show - early season Ventress is as cold and, well, evil as DR Ventress and although she did eventually end up on the same general side as the good guys (without ever completely becoming one) it took a lot of time to get her there.

    As to Scout, well... it's interesting. Obviously some of her tactics wouldn't ever work against a full strength Jedi wielding a full strength lightsaber BUT the idea that her ingenuity and determination are important qualities in a potential Jedi are to be applauded. Certainly some other media and even the show at times made it seem like being a ''good'' Jedi was purely and simply a question of how powerful you are, so suggesting that someone with very little natural talent but a lot of determination still has a part to play is a good idea.
  20. Dagobahsystem Force Ghost

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    Based on what he told her, it seems Tyranus simply wants to use Asajj as a fall guy and a distraction from his activities.

    I agree with @jakobitis89 that Dooku seems more conflicted in DR, especially his relationship with Master Yoda. I do think he is setting a trap, however. Time will tell.

    I like Scouts' arc so far. She is smart and has a lot of spirit and determination. I did not object to her tactics in the duels, although she would have lost a hand against a full strength lightsaber. Too bad the Force is not stronger with her.
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  21. Talos of Atmora Jedi Master

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    As a whole, I think this was a good beginning for Dooku's total downward spiral into evil where, while he still had conflicting emotions, he was willing to consider totally insidious methods. It flows well into the later Clone Wars multimedia project material like Labyrinth of Evil and the Revenge of the Sith novelization where he becomes a true villain and becomes absorbed by his own selfishness and arrogance. It's one of the current canon's worst missed opportunities where they never seemed to consider Dooku's past with the rest of the Jedi Order, his relationship with old masters and his status among the Lost Twenty beside some grumblings from other characters about him being traitorous and not much else.

    It's part of why I dislike what @jakobitis89 was talking about in regards to TCW where he hardly ever seemed to have an arc or a multifaceted personality (like much of the CIS's characters in Filoni's content). The same applies to Ventress, really. Her later conclusion in Republic was far preferable to Dark Disciple's conclusion as well (where she practically just became entirely good and had everything that was interesting about her thrown away just to get her out of the picture), given what we see here.

    @cubman987 His explanation also shows that he believes himself to be "too valuable" to be a mere tool like she is. He believes that his circumstances are somewhat different to every other apprentice that Palpatine has had thus far.

    Scout's one of those characters in Legends that I really liked because she broke that mold of prestige among characters with high levels of power and inner potential (i.e. Rey, Luke, etc.) and used her own ingenuity to win battles. I wish it's something that translated to the films for Jedi more often but that's just the way it is.
    Last edited by Talos of Atmora, Aug 22, 2017
  22. Blackhole E Snoke Jedi Knight

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    @Talos of Atmora I think you meant the conclusion of Dark Disciple right?

    Don't worry anyone who hasn't read Yoda: DR before, that wasn't a spoiler lol.
    Last edited by Blackhole E Snoke, Aug 22, 2017
  23. Talos of Atmora Jedi Master

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    Yeah, that's right, sorry.
    Last edited by Talos of Atmora, Aug 22, 2017
  24. cubman987 PT Book Club Host - PT Trivia Host

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    I can see why Dooku is written the way he is based on when this book came out, if you look at AOTC and even ROTS he's always giving the Jedi a chance to surrender or a way out from being killed. Is that just arrogance, strategy, or was he still not really willing to kill the Jedi so easily....

    I liked the conversation with Ventress about not making her his apprentice. The "Rule of 2" is such a strange concept in that you are basically making your apprentice strong enough to kill you and take over, so to see him try to avoid that makes a lot of sense, especially since he is still serving Darth Sidious himself. I wonder if it's purely self preservation, he finds himself to valuable as ToA said, or if doesn't really buy into it as an effective way for the Sith to continue.

    As for Ventress, she seems a pretty big contrast to where her character ended up in the new canon. I know early on she was a much darker character but she seems even more so in this so far, though admittedly it's been a while since I've watched the early TCW episodes.

    Scout is interesting so far, I like that she is able to show that being strong in the Force isn't the only thing that can make a Jedi formidable. I don't think her actions were wrong, though they do seem to toe the line of how the Jedi prefer to appear and act. I think Qui-Gon would have liked her.
    Last edited by cubman987, Aug 24, 2017
  25. Tonyg Jedi Knight

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    I read the book, so I'll hide some comments in order to avoid spoilers.
    The book is ok, there are some interesting premises to read and discuss. The plot is centered around the disruption between masters and padawans which would culminate (cronologically) in Anakin-Obi Wan duel in Revenge of the Sith. In the book we see different variants of this: master who had lost his padawan (I don't think it is spoiler to say that is Yoda), padawan who cannot find a master (as you read the first chapter you kow that is Scout) , padawans who loose their masters (for spoiler avoiding I wouldn't say who are they) someone who wants to be a disciple (in a way, padawan) but cannot be, and master and padawan who are not master and padawan already but still act like this. So, this is the main premise and is very intriguing. What I didn't like is that is like the book cannot decide what it wants to be: a philosophical journey of master and padwans' crisis or a real suspense -full episode of the clone wars. Because, there is no real conflict resolution or just I saw it that way. All the 5 main characters (here I include Assaj) should pass trough some test, but the solution, the way they resolve it is just unsatisfying and not very persuasive for me. Especially in the case of Whie that should be a allusion to Anakin Skywalker's fate.

    There is something that I saw in other books too and I don't like: how the relationship between Padme and Anakin and all around it is described (except in the novelizations, of course). Don't get me wrong, is not that every book should be centered around it, but every book should be embedded in the universe and that's mean that the characters of the movies should be and act as the characters of the movies and in this case, the books I read fail, including Dark rendezvous.
    Show Spoiler
    Obi Wan acts as he not only knows but he is sure about Anakin -Padme's love. That is an absurd for me as even till the end of ROTS Obi Wan shows that he suspects that, but suspecting and be sure are completely different situations. Also, if he is sure, why he doesn't do anything in this aspect? Second, Anakin is too open about his feelings. It is all the opposite in the movies: while Anakin's character is open and frank he is forced to hide many things after AOTC, especially his love and marriage what in the end is part of his own destruction.
    The relation between Anakin and Padme is avoided, I mean avoided to be described or to be discussed., it barely exists and it is significant part of both character's life. Of course, here they are not the main characters but still I have this feeling when I read the moments that include something about them.


    Paradoxically, the most interesting and well described characters for me are Scout and Whie, maybe that's why I wasn't satisfied of what happened between Yoda and Dooku as I expected fotr them to be the center of the book. Both of them but especially Dooku are a little 'pale' here, I mean I couldn't understand completely their motives and in the case of Dooku even the movies cannot help me as we see too little of Dooku character (for the movies that is fine) but here we should see his internal conflict. I think his motives are unconvincing.
    Show Spoiler
    jealousy? Is this all? Dooku acting like a little boy.. Welll.. I'm not sure that it fits him. I know that the author cannot do much as both of them, Dooku and Yoda should stay alive and unspoiled till Episode 3 and unchanged in their minds, still I didn't understand the motives of Yoda who here wants to save his former apprentice and in Episode 3 has no doubts that Anakin is forever consumed by the Dark Side.

    Scout is very interesting character. At last we see a Jedi (padawan) who doesn't rely on her talent to feel the Force but mostly on her personal characteristics. She is fast thinking, very focused on the detail and very decided to win. In a way reminds of Sabine of Rebels (when she said: I won't quit! I never quit!). So these, including her loyalty to the Order are her best strengths. In a way, Scout is an antagonist to Anakin: he is strong and she is weak to feel the Force. So, the book gives us the answer what a person who is decided to win, fast thinking and dreaming to be a Jedi (Anakin in a flesh) would do when he ir she in this case is not strong to feel the Force.
    Whie on the other side is similar to Anakin in his talents but not in his character: he is calm and relaxed and yet, he has visions that cause him a big turmoil.
    Show Spoiler
    In a way, Whie passes through similar tests that Anakin, including the encounter with his mother in very hard situation but here again i would say that is unsatisfying to me how Whie resolves the problem.



    So this is for now, about the question should Scout win using other's weak side: yes, if she do it without breaking the rules what should be unfair and not the Jedi way. In the end the others underestimates her for her weakness and this is something that he Jedi shouldn't do at all, so her victory is a test for them (as is obvious the masters think in the same way).
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