Speculation Clues in Episode 3 for Episode 7?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by droconnel22, Nov 3, 2012.

  1. droconnel22 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Just as we cited the famous Ben Kenobi Speech about the clone wars and how it really referenced Obi Wons relationship with anakin, recall the the dark times, before the emperor. That one conversation provided more information about the prequels then anything else in the original trilogy.

    >>What if the conversation between Anakin and Palpatine in the opera during EpIII about the darksides ability to bring back to life. Its not a story the jedi will tell. Darth Plagus was so powerful and wise he could influence the medichlorians to create life. The dark side of the force is pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. This may be whats in store.
  2. Chancellor_Ewok Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    Hmmmm....so the villain for the ST could be so monstrous that he'd do things that not even Palpatine would do? I like that.
  3. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    like woah!
    But I think we're looking to much into this...
    Spazmatron likes this.
  4. Chancellor_Ewok Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    Oh, I agree, I don't think that scene can be read into in that way, but I do like the idea of a Sith Lord who's so out there that he makes Palpatine look tame.
    WIERD_GREEN_MAN likes this.
  5. Jango_Fett21 Chosen One

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    Apr 9, 2002
    star 4
    The only hurdle I can see is that Palpatine pretty explicitely says that Plagueis was killed in his sleep, but, with the decision to canonically bring Darth Maul back for the The Clone Wars cartoon, I could possibly see a similar resurrection happening vis a vis Plagueis, and it might be interesting to actually see the character make an appearance in the canon as opposed to simply hearing about him.
    Last edited by Jango_Fett21, Nov 3, 2012
  6. Jobertus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    I would enjoy something like that, to tie the trilogies together. I've read 'Darth Plagueis' (a great book), but he's dead, and (assuming Ep VII take splace in 30-45 ABY) its been 60 to 70 years since he died (or if he atually appears in the ST, "supposedly died".) He is also a great villain, and written properly it could be good.

    Also, Obi-Wan's reference to changing the signal and warning surviving Jedi to stay away from the Temple and go into hiding could be another such thread to use.
    Merlin_Ambrosius69 likes this.
  7. Chancellor_Ewok Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    That's a possibility. In the SWRD Obi-wan does make vague references to Jedi in hiding.
  8. Spazmatron Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2012
    star 3
    Have TCW give clues to his ressurection then bring him back in epsiode 7 as the villain!
  9. Jango_Fett21 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 4
    While I think it would make a certain degree of sense if Plagueis were to have deceived Palpatine/Sidious into thinking he was dead only to emerge years and years later since we have only the single reference to him in film canon, it would make considerably less sense for PT-era Jedi to have survived into the timeline of the MT (Middle Trilogy, which is my new moniker for Episodes IV, V, and VI) and beyond, particularly since it seems to me as if Yoda would've been aware of their survival and therefore would not have explicitely told Luke that upon his (Yoda's) death, he (Luke) would be the last of the Jedi.
  10. Jobertus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    It's possible one of these potential surviving Jedi (from the Old Republic) has gone to the dark side and becomes our villain in the ST, Quinlan Vos or someone else.
  11. Chancellor_Ewok Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    Deepa Bilaba, maybe? She was Mace Windu's Padawan and the only person other than Windu to master Vapaad. She also went completely off the deep end. Might be interesting to have Luke or Ben go up against her.
    Last edited by Chancellor_Ewok, Nov 3, 2012
  12. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    Right, she disappeared just like Ventress. Open to some interesting possibilities...
  13. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 5
    what if the thread/clue from EIII was immortality itself?

    EIII - Sith are looking for immortality and Jinn (in the script) tells Yoda that you ight be able to physically join with the Force.

    EVI - Yoda says he is strong in the Force but not strong enough to avoid death.

    What if Luke is strong enough to avoid death become immortal and learns this in the ST? It could be interersting to see if he becomes immortal and steps away or turns it down entirely.
    fistofan1 and TreborSabreon like this.
  14. droconnel22 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    I really like that idea. I think the ST really needs a strong theme. In the PT it was about Anakin fullfilling his destiny as the most powerful jedi and about Palpatine fullfilling his conquest of the galaxy to ultimate power. The MT was about redemption and hope Luke with his father, and the civil war. The ST could be about life and death (sith/jedi rebirth) and about re-unification of the universe, unlikely factions coming together.

    I re-watched ep3 oprea scene. If Lucas knew in the back of his mind what themes were important for the ST and he deliberately placed a long dialogue scene about resurrection spoken by palpatine himself (meaning palpatine knew about this and was studying it!!) in the middle of what was a very action heavy movie.

    Whats also interesting is that in ANH, ObiWon speech had one meaning before the prequels were made. It was in context of Luke wondering about his father. After the prequels (or u could argue ROTJ) we know the speech was really about Obi won hiding the truth from Luke. The point being as new episodes came out, older conversations took different meanings so this clue from ep3 is not without precedent.
  15. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    I think cheating death will play into the next trilogy. That skill is something Anakin wanted... and I think that even in Death he's going to be working on that power. But I believe it is the JEDI who had already started that work.... via Qui Gon

    Something I posted on another site in regards to the video recently posted on Starwars.com that also fits in to this discussion about imortality:

    ".......I only bring it up because, in light of recent events, its a bit odd that they would suddenly release this edited together content on Starwars.com without any explanation of its purpose.

    I gathered from it what you did, the possibility of Anakin being there in spirit form, likely to guide his son. Ghosts have only been used in a limited way in past films, but I think it could be very interesting and touching to see Luke and Anakin get to have some father-son relationship time.

    And while possibly a little too "out there," something that has been gnawing at me is Anakin's old desire to learn to "cheat death" and save the ones he loves (See Revenge of the Sith.) Did Palpatine's master really find a way or was that just a lie to Anakin's ears?

    What is interesting is that Qui Gon DID find a way. First you hear his voice in Attack of the Clones. Later, at the end of Revenge of the Sith Yoda tells Obi Wan that Qui Gon has found a way to return from the netherworld of the force. Qui Gon's body did not vanish at the end of TPM and we did not see him as a visual spirit, but later we do get to see Obi Wan, Yoda and even Anakin as spirits. It would have been easy enough to have shown a spirit in Revenge of the Sith or another prequel, but we didn't get to.

    ... this leads me to the conclusion that the "training" Yoda has for Obi Wan during his exile, has to do first with learning to communicate with Qui Gon. I believe this eventually leads to Obi Wan or Yoda figuring out how to project their spirits, visually into the world again.

    THIS is the real way of "cheating death."

    But I don't think the learning is done, or at least we haven't been shown all the cards yet.

    So Obi Wan, Yoda and Anakin can visually appear as a spirit in the world now. But is that all they can do? Can they physically effect the world... as in touch solid objects with their hands, or use their old force powers to lift things, pull off a jedi mindtrick, etc...

    It was Obi Wan who said "strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

    What did he mean?

    So I have this feeling that in the next trilogy we're going to see the next stage of this development. Anakin will be back and either we'll see him actually weild the force to effect events from his form as a spirit...... or somebody is going to eventually learn to return from death in FLESH AND BLOOD physical form... "
  16. Big Bad Yoda Daddy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2000
    star 4
    Very interesting indeed...
  17. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    If the midicholrians can be influenced to create life, then any number of long-dead Sith could be resurrected, not only Plagueis, but Dark Lords harkening back to the Sith Empire of ancient times. The story possibilities that open up are literally limitless.

    I don't think the "Jedi in hiding" subplot will be exploited in the ST, though, because that thread was dealt with in Ep. IV with Kenobi's explanation that Vader hunted down and destroyed the Jedi.
  18. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    Create life... but choose who is born and get dead souls born into new bodies.... thats kind of out there. Plagueis was experimenting to try and tip the force in his favor. Anakin happened. But was Anakin the goal of his work or the side effect of midichlorians fighting back against Plagueis intrusion?
  19. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    I see your point, and I don't know the answer to your question, but I don't think it's too much a stretch, within a sci-fi/fantasy context, to go from "creates life" to "resurrects life". A talented team of writers, with Lucas as concept man, could take the seed of that idea and turn it into something lively and dynamic involving resurrected Sith Lords from ancient times. Why not? It's just an excuse for good fun.
    Last edited by Merlin_Ambrosius69, Nov 4, 2012
  20. KED12345 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    star 4
    I think Episode 6 had the most clues for Episode 7, some of which won't be revealed I'm betting until we see the movie.
    Last edited by KED12345, Nov 4, 2012
  21. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I wonder if Yoda's line, "A prophecy that misread could have been", might be some kind of setup for the ST. Lucas has been very clear about the fact that Anakin is the chosen one and what that means, but perhaps there's more to it and his role to play in Galactic events doesn't end with his death.
    Voss likes this.
  22. the_sinister_hologram Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 3
    I completely forgot about that line. Also, Darth Plagueis was "introduced" in the same episode. Coincidence? I don't know...
    Perhaps the prophecy really was written by a Sith Lord (probably Plagueis) just as part of his plan of creating someone able to destroy all his enemies, while he sits back and enjoys the show.

    The PT makes a big deal out of the Prophecy, but there really is no payoff. Obi-Wan never mentioned the Prophecy to Luke. And neither did Yoda.
    Maybe the line you quoted there was a sign that the Jedi have started to figure out that there is something fishy about all this Prophecy business.
    But it was too late to do anything about that.
    And Palpatine seemed to be unaware of the Prophecy. But then again, he didn't reveal much info to Anakin until later in the movie.
    And if Palpatine was indeed aware of it, he didn't seem nervous at all when talking to Anakin.
    Last edited by the_sinister_hologram, Nov 4, 2012
  23. Voss Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 1
    In the Mortis trilogy Anakin came to know he was the chosen, and that he was different. Yoda did not believe Anakin to be something special just dangerous, it wasn't until his exile that he realized it. The reverse happened for Obi wan. But moving foward I believe 'passing on what you have learned' will become important.

    All this is very fascinating, it may be pointing to Plagueis or something greater. Personally I need more data, like an official title or something.. Don't know how I feel about Plagueis being main baddie but George likes a common theme and a cyclical nature.
  24. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    My take on the Prophecy was always that it was placed in the Prequel Trilogy as a sort of lesson on the dangers of prophecy and self fulfillment. Qui Gon seemed very hung up on the importance of this prophecy. Some of the other Jedi seemed a bit less impressed. Lucas plays back and forth a lot, I think, with the argument of fate/destiny versus self determination - nature versus nurture, if you will.
  25. Chancellor_Ewok Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    I don't think we'll be seeing Anakin as a Force Ghost. He's appeared once to Luke, at the end of Ep. VI, along with Obi-wan and Yoda, and once to Leia in the EU, and that's it. Anakin's arc is done.
    Last edited by Chancellor_Ewok, Nov 4, 2012